Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week

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ah...your stance in how you presented some of your points seemed almost more on the defensive than just stating your opinion. my apologies for the misunderstanding...i was just curious about why you seemed to be on the defensive in your post.

No problem. I'm not upset or anything. Not really arguing with anyone in particular. I was just trying to make a point after reading about the group mentioned at the start of the threat. It got me thinking about things.

It seems odd to me when people act like their side can do no wrong. This is the attitude I see with the "Islamofascist awareness" type group but some liberal groups are just as bad. People like to choose a side and then stick their head in the sand. On the one hand you have the US can do no wrong and all Muslims are potential terrorists crowd, then you have the all real Muslims are peace loving and the US is the source of all terrorism crowd.

What's kind of annoying is when people assume that if you are not in one camp you must be in the other. I.e. if I don't approve of the republican party and the war mongers I am somehow tacitly denying that Muslim extremists are real. Then if I criticize the Koran there will be liberals who will assume I'm Christian and tell me that the Bible has stuff that's just as bad (which I already know and is beside the point).

I remember when you could state your political party or your views on common issues with out it opening up an opportunity to get LAMBASTED by someone that wants to vent upon me as the author of all they see as unholy.

I also find it particularly exasperating when they assume they know what I think because if I feel such and so, then I must allign myself with a particular movement that has some vague connection with the same such and so I was talking about. Having built that Straw Man argument they then burn it down (and me with it) unless I get the heck out of the way.

Merle

If you were older and here, I'd kiss you.

People, it's time to wake up. 9/11 wasn't all that long ago. Those "crazy Muslims" are just biding their time until they get the right opportunity to strike us unexpected again. They are extremely patient and understand that (especially in the US) people forget and become complacent when they don't have a daily threat to worry about. Healthcare isn't going to do us any good if we're all dead.

quit with the fear-mongering nazi rhetoric. 9/11 was because most americans know jack about their own foreign policy and how much it impoverishes other parts of the world and how we've interfered with middle eastern politics for over 50 years now.

you want the terrorists to leave us alone, quit being out and out biased with israel, quit supporting terrorist states like saudi arabia (where a majority of the 9-11 were from AND recently terrorist flyers in spain were linked to the saud regime directly), and quit messing with other countries were we don't belong and know very little to nothing about their culture (i'll bet almost no american here even knows how to be polite within arab cultures or what polite is).

it's ignorant fools like you who've gotten us in the mess we're in now and are the fools who caused 9-11 to happen in the first place (free clue: the terrorists don't hate our "freedoms").

It's so typical of a liberal to use insults as an argument when you know nothing of the person you're insulting.

Your argument of "we asked for it" makes about as much sense to me as saying women who wear short skirts deserve to get raped or people in abusive relationships deserve to get beaten. Do you believe those statements? If not then how can you believe that over 3000 people deserved to be massacred because they happened to live in this country?

I don't really care what the terrorists' reasons are, to be honest. I don't think any reason they might have can justify their actions. There are plenty of rapists and murderers in prison who were severely beaten as children or have mental issues. Should we excuse their behavior because of that?

you can't compare it to a rape victim "asking for it". that's a passive person being attacked. the US has been interfering in matters that aren't their own for years. that includes overthrowing multiple iranian leaders (short memories? anyone?).

i'm not saying that we deserved it. i'm saying that we provoked it. that we took action in such a way that we provoked others to attack us. metaphorically speaking, it's us throwing beer in someone else's face and them retaliating.

i'm not even gonna bother with that strawman in your last comment.

Spot 17 wrote...

'It's so typical of a liberal to use insults as an argument when you know nothing of the person you're insulting.

Your argument of "we asked for it" makes about as much sense to me as saying women who wear short skirts deserve to get raped or people in abusive relationships deserve to get beaten. Do you believe those statements? If not then how can you believe that over 3000 people deserved to be massacred because they happened to live in this country?

I don't really care what the terrorists' reasons are, to be honest. I don't think any reason they might have can justify their actions. There are plenty of rapists and murderers in prison who were severely beaten as children or have mental issues. Should we excuse their behavior because of that?'


Sorry mate but your arguments aren't that strong.
Your 'women and short skirts' argument is not even remotely relevant as an analogy.

A more appropriate one would be something along the lines of the school bully getting knifed in the kidney by one of their victims or one of their victims friends, a women in a short skirt has created no victims, stolen nothing, lied to no-one [unless you think the skirt was a sign saying 'here it is free' - in which case you have an ugly sexuality IMO], certain elements and attitudes within mainstream American culture have indeed robbed, raped and murdered and this has created a backlash.

To use 'liberal' in that sneery generalised way is every bit as insulting as anything skafather84 said.

You assume that skafather has some 'apologist/self hate' trip going on when all I have seen is a fairly brutal honesty about the nature of cause and effect. If you support those activities and attitudes and are uncomfortable with his position fine, however you should realise he is possibly more in touch with the realities of some of the varying external perspectives on these things, than your posting would imply you are.

There are people all over the world who speak different languages and hold different values to the 300 Million citizens of this planet called 'Americans', many are appalled at your behaviour and cultural imperialism, many of us are appalled at Russia, China and loads of their client states just as much as we are with you and yours, but this watching America is like observing anything as ugly and abusive of the external as anything history has yet yielded.

As for those broken people in prisons, compassion as a society reduces these abuses, forgiveness is good for the victim as much as the abuser, your 'eye for an eye' take on things is no better, your cruise missiles and nuclear threats are winning you no friends as a nation and like all bullies those you have are not true friends, just clients and allies as disposable as Saddam ever was and they all know it.

Yeah I know, how dare I have an opinion, bloody anti-American scum bag p****, blah, blah, blah.

peace j

Why is it that the US is equal opportunity when it comes to bullying other countries (look at Latin America), yet it's always Muslims involved in terrorist attacks? Something tells me religion plays at least some role in it.

Also, “they” may not “hate our freedom”, but some of them certainly disapprove of it in many cases. Remember the "cartoon riots"? According to some Muslims it's a capitol offence to make fun of religion.

@ marshall

Ditto for all fundamentalists including Christians and capitalists, get over it, with freedom comes responsibility, with every action there is a reaction, if the US is going to bomb anyone and everyone that they disagree with or that disagrees with them then s**t is gonna go down. Rights or wrongs aside you mess with my kith or kin I am gonna f**k you up, simple, it isn't rocket science.
If you guys spent even half the energy you exert in whining and excuse making fixing things and trying to understand instead of change people, well then maybe there would be no terrorists.

peace j

people are too lazy to even look up the history of the teleban or iran or iraq or israel or palestine....you think they're gonna put any effort into actually trying to fix a problem? they're just gonna bomb them out of the way.


it pisses me off too because basically most people in the country have an attitude of "if it doesn't affect me, i don't care" and in doing so, they're giving up all kinds of rights and freedoms just because they don't choose to participate in those freedoms.

i will never pray to god but i will most certainly oppose restricting other people's rights with praying. unfortunately, those people wouldn't lift a finger to protect my right to say and believe there is no god. so the democracy and the freedoms all vanish eventually. the pace of this has been quickened by WWII and the baby boomers' spoiled lifestyle growing up in a virgin, booming economy...which is where the whole lift yourself up by the bootstraps mentality comes from...back when you could actually earn a living relatively easily. such a thing doesn't exist today. but that's another topic.

you wanna talk about doing something....you can't. people are too ignorant and lazy and shove their head in the sand whenever something like that comes up.

@ skafather

Bummer, same s**t all over mate, and yeah I have noticed the attitude...

peace j

I don't follow. What does that have to do with anything I said? Who is "you guys"?

'you guys' = The coalition of the willing/US citizens/fundamentalist Christians/corporate whores/neo -cons.

My point is that you are the authors of your own delusion - the vast majority of Muslims want to live decent peaceful lives like most PEOPLE do, however they have been demonised to the point of high theatre, it is a joke, a paranoid delusion brought on by the machinations of an ever more desperate and greedy oligarchy.
I have said it loads of times before, but you are way more likely to die in a road incident or as a result of US military activities than as a result of 'Islamo-Facism', 'terrorism' or any other such extreme behaviour.
My own personal quality of life is being affected more by the ways of the Anglo/Christian west than it ever will be by Iran or Afghanistan. My personal experiences of Israeli or Palestinian/Lebanese people tells me who is the arrogant lying thieving shitebags, all that and the whining of the worlds most privileged citizens is tiresome.

Like I said get over it, you have made our bed and now you lie in it, if you want peace then perhaps you should be walking peacefully instead of behaving like the most warlike peoples on earth, or in your own personal case [WA = Western Australia ??] Americas number one client/ally.

peace j

. .when you say 'you guys' you separate people and then classify them. oh, you know, Marshall divide and conquer?

Aotearoa doesn't wander the world issuing ultimatums or telling people they have only two choices, 'with us? or agin us?'

To refer to a group of xenophobes as 'you guys' is merely to recognize the obvious.
The current age of neo fascistic fear that we are in is really the stupidest of choices when there are serious GLOBAL issues to deal with, and it is a choice, it is a choice about who you believe and trust and how you deal with that.
Islam is no more threat to most of the planets citizens than Christianity, America needs an enemy, it used to be the Soviets and now it is the Arab nationalist and Muslim fundamentalists, you need an enemy because it drives your economy and defines your national character, America thrives on war, you owe everybody but you keep sucking up a third of the worlds resources and using immoral [though legal] banking and trade practices to strip developing nations and all because if anyone tries to say 'hold up bud' or 'not for us' then you put them on the hate list and make things hard. If they try and just say 'f**k off' and do their own thing then you demonize and wage war on them [either overtly or covertly] and really the rest of us can't do squat because at the end of the day you'll just use battlefield nukes and DU on us, occupy us and then systematically destroy our society.
So some people around the world are calling you on it, what do you expect?

It isn't we the minnow nations that wander the world dividing and conquering, is it?

peace j