Hooray for liberalism: "Plant rights" have arrived

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Maxrebo
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06 May 2008, 3:15 pm

Good now the vegietarians will have to eat meat because animals raised on farms are raised for our consumption if we released them into the wild they would be massacred so what we are already do is the most humane and moral thing possible eat that peta.

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DeanFoley
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06 May 2008, 3:29 pm

I question ''Plant rights'', but at least one group is concerned with the protection of something other than humans.

Ragtime
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06 May 2008, 3:55 pm

Odin wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

LeKiwi wrote:

Ragtime, can you please explain what you mean by your exceptionally simplified term 'liberals/liberalism'??

Gladly.
Conservatives believe that what has worked in the past a high number of times is likely to work again,
and that, barring a compelling new discovery, using time-proven methods and strategies is the best way to live.
A true liberal wakes up each day with a blank state in his memory. He's not really sure what worked
yesterday, or yesteryear; he just knows he likes pleasure. Preferably, the quickest success that seems possible.
He's not interested in investigating whether the short-'n-easy paths are necessarily the best ones;
he wants to do them, and he wants to do them now. Open-minded, patient research is something completely foreign
to a liberal. They're like children.

Pleasure is their truth. They like good-sounding speakers, moral-sounding ideas... Basically, anything that
sounds or looks or tastes or smells or feels good is good, as far as they're concerned.
Liberalism is the belief that lazy shortsightedness WILL pay off, if you want it bad enough.
But no one is liberal through and through, and in every possible sense, or else they wouldn't be
alive at the end of the day, due to pursuing some short-sighted solution or other, like
crossing the street before checking both ways.

Interestingly, everyone is conservative in the way they practice their professional areas of expertise,
because that's what conservativism is: the patient application of wisdom gained through experience.
It's not as fun as liberalism, but it leads to true success at life.

the vast, vast, vast majority of liberals are nothing like your description.

As I said, I gave a definition of "a true liberal", of which there are very few, but all liberals retain major elements from my description.

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Ragtime
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06 May 2008, 3:56 pm

LeKiwi wrote:

Odin wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

LeKiwi wrote:

Ragtime, can you please explain what you mean by your exceptionally simplified term 'liberals/liberalism'??

Gladly.
Conservatives believe that what has worked in the past a high number of times is likely to work again,
and that, barring a compelling new discovery, using time-proven methods and strategies is the best way to live.
A true liberal wakes up each day with a blank state in his memory. He's not really sure what worked
yesterday, or yesteryear; he just knows he likes pleasure. Preferably, the quickest success that seems possible.
He's not interested in investigating whether the short-'n-easy paths are necessarily the best ones;
he wants to do them, and he wants to do them now. Open-minded, patient research is something completely foreign
to a liberal. They're like children.

Pleasure is their truth. They like good-sounding speakers, moral-sounding ideas... Basically, anything that
sounds or looks or tastes or smells or feels good is good, as far as they're concerned.
Liberalism is the belief that lazy shortsightedness WILL pay off, if you want it bad enough.
But no one is liberal through and through, and in every possible sense, or else they wouldn't be
alive at the end of the day, due to pursuing some short-sighted solution or other, like
crossing the street before checking both ways.

Interestingly, everyone is conservative in the way they practice their professional areas of expertise,
because that's what conservativism is: the patient application of wisdom gained through experience.
It's not as fun as liberalism, but it leads to true success at life.

the vast, vast, vast majority of liberals are nothing like your description.

He's confusing liberalism with hedonism, that's why. :roll:

This explains a lot.

No, liberalism isn't hedonism, but it often includes it, and combines it with ignorance.
So, to put it more simply for you, a liberal is an ignoramus who believes he is wise.
He believes he knows more about issues than those more experienced than himself.

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Ragtime
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06 May 2008, 3:59 pm

Odin wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

sojournertruth wrote:

Ragtime,
I'm a flaming liberal. I'm also a trained biologist from a university that focuses on ecology.

I eat meat. Sometimes, I even kill my own. I wear leather without qualm.
I believe in sustainable forestry.
I believe in sustainable fisheries.

It makes it easier to 'argue' when you set up unrealistic straw men, but eventually you realize that you're only arguing with yourself; when you want to argue with real, complex people, let us know.

You just set up a strawman about yourself: You said you're a flaming liberal, when clearly you are not,
by virtue of the attributes you mention about yourself. (See my definition of a liberal, above.)

Your definition of liberal is wrong. I'm farther left then probably 95% of liberals and your description doesn't even come close to describing me.

Well, you'd hardly be conscious of it, would you?! Let alone admit to it!
I mean, think about it: If I say, "A liberal is an ignoramus", which is basically what I did say,
then you're hardly likely going to go, "Hmmm, I'M an ignoramus!" I mean, if you knew that,
you wouldn't be an ignoramus anymore, but would be on your way to clear thinking.
A liberal usually thinks he is not a liberal.

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Ragtime
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06 May 2008, 4:03 pm

AspE wrote:

One ethic panel in Switzerland, of all places, represent the views of all "liberals" (whatever that is)? This story is being echoed all over the right wing press, they love to paint the left as silly and unrealistic, so they can keep on murdering and torturing people and taking over their resources, while robbing from the poor to give to the rich. Judge not, my friend...

I'm sorry, but how are they not silly and unrealistic? That's all liberalism is!
They offer the one product conservatives can't supply: enthusiastic short-sightedness.

Okay... now that we've established that...
Which liberal vegans on here are ready to stop murdering and eating plants??

Oh, you cruel savages if you don't stop it!
Plants are living things, too! Stop it! Stop the MASSACRE!

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Last edited by Ragtime on 06 May 2008, 4:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.

LeKiwi
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06 May 2008, 4:06 pm

Ragtime wrote:

enthusiastic short-sightedness.

Resorting to self-description now, are we? Because you seem to have that in spades...

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monty
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06 May 2008, 4:14 pm

Ragtime wrote:

I mean, think about it: If I say, "A liberal is an ignoramus", which is basically what I did say,
then you're hardly likely going to go, "Hmmm, I'M an ignoramus!" I mean, if you knew that,
you wouldn't be an ignoramus anymore, but would be on your way to clear thinking.
A liberal usually thinks he is not a liberal.

There are some liberals that are ignoramuses, and some conservatives that are ignoramuses. But ALL paranoid schizophrenic wingnuts get reelly annoying when they are on their topic.

Nice weather were having. (oops - that might set off the PSWs that believe the government is controlling the weather).

LeKiwi
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06 May 2008, 4:20 pm

HAARP, anyone?

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monty
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06 May 2008, 4:44 pm

Sure, Haarp radar might be messing up the weather. But not controlling it. And the weather has been very nice in my neighborhood this spring.

matsuiny2004
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06 May 2008, 5:01 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Griff wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Griff wrote:

Frankly, I think this is a joke at the expense of obnoxious vegans. If so, it is long overdue.

Don't forget, animal rights used to be a joke.

It still is a joke, including amongst liberals. Vegans, particularly those affiliated with PETA, are annoying prats.

It's a joke among liberals? Are you serious? Then who are all those babes who won't wear fur or leather on principle, or use any animal product? Sure, they'll buy sneakers manufactured by 10-year-old Pedro working 16 hours a day in a sweatshop in Latin America, but animals? Why, they're sacred! Even dead animals, i.e. leather and fur!
:roll:

These people are everywhere, and I don't think they're all PETA gals.

The left is always slowly and eventually pulled further left by its fringe groups, like PETA, and this trend never ends, except for those certain liberals who eventually have had enough, and become conservatives.

I may be a centrist, but I can agree with you on that

Griff
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06 May 2008, 5:22 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Griff wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Griff wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Griff wrote:

Frankly, I think this is a joke at the expense of obnoxious vegans. If so, it is long overdue.

Don't forget, animal rights used to be a joke.

It still is a joke, including amongst liberals. Vegans, particularly those affiliated with PETA, are annoying prats.

It's a joke among liberals? Are you serious?

Entirely.

Quote:

Then who are all those babes who won't wear fur or leather on principle, or use any animal product?

Teenaged girls who love puppydogs and furry things. They've been around since the time of Chaucer, who also found them annoying.

Quote:

The left is always slowly and eventually pulled further left by its fringe groups, like PETA, and this trend never ends,

Shut up, you offensive, conservative nutjob. You're more annoying than PETA, UFO nuts, conspiracy theorists, and "hackers," all rolled into one, and you don't even have the decency to be amusing. At least our fringe nuts have the decency to act as a source of perpetual amusement.

Here's how it has worked through history with liberals:
Step 1. Laugh at the fringe.
Step 2. Become the fringe.

Yep. That's why we've always humored them. They're a valuable source of ideas. Ideas that are ridiculed now may prove themselves later on. I have some fringe views of my own. I'm pretty bashful about discussing them around here, but my thinking patterns can get pretty bizzare. Perhaps some of them may have value, but this isn't the place to discuss them. This is a battleground of ideas, not country fair for them. I don't expect all of them to eventually make it into the mainstream, though, for, at heart, creativity is a process of elimination.

I certainly don't espouse all of the views held by the leftist fringe, but I do value them.

And, once again, young women have been swooning over small, furry things since the dawn of time. Any idiot knows this.

D1nk0
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06 May 2008, 6:37 pm

Ragtime wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/065njdoe.asp

:roll:

Yet another push toward the suggestion that mankind worship nature.

I would have posted this in the News area, but it's such fertile ground (so to speak) for philisophical and religious discussion,
it just had PPR written all over it.

Im skeptical. Sounds like the kind of Bullsh*t Sensationalism you'll find on The Weekly Standard :wink:

Cyanide
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06 May 2008, 6:37 pm

Don't eat animals, they're people too!
Don't eat plants, they're living organisms too!
Don't drink water, because there are living microrganisms in it!

D1nk0
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06 May 2008, 6:42 pm

I noticed the author of the article is a member of the International Task Force on Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide. I have to say that I have NO f*****g sympathy or patience for that matter when it comes to people who are "morally opposed" to Assisted Suicide :evil: .
While their arguments are based on superstitious Nonsense that somehow only that Guy in the Sky should get total control our OWN life and death :roll: , their true motives are so incredibly self-interested in the most dispicable way. The HEALTH INSURRANCE INDUSTRY is the force behind the movement to band Assisted Suicide in the US! The reason is simple: They seek to keep you alive as long as possible so they can continue to BILL your ass as long as you're alive!

matrix
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06 May 2008, 9:02 pm

D1nk0 wrote:

I noticed the author of the article is a member of the International Task Force on Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide. I have to say that I have NO f***ing sympathy or patience for that matter when it comes to people who are "morally opposed" to Assisted Suicide :evil:

.
While their arguments are based on superstitious Nonsense that somehow only that Guy in the Sky should get total control our OWN life and death :roll:

, their true motives are so incredibly self-interested in the most dispicable way. The HEALTH INSURRANCE INDUSTRY is the force behind the movement to band Assisted Suicide in the US! The reason is simple: They seek to keep you alive as long as possible so they can continue to BILL your ass as long as you're alive!

If consciousness is completely unrecoverable, then go ahead and pull the plug. They bill the a$$es of the caretakers, all the while they can get a fundie church involved so it takes an entire congregation's money for none or minimal anecdotal response.

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