my argument against atheism

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When a Christian "argues" agains atheism, I laugh. It is as if atheist views are solely against the Christian God. Fact is, there is NO god an atheist will worship. That Christian God ain't so special, he's among many gods we don't believe in. Now to Christians thinking it illogical to dismiss "God," why do you so fervently dismiss every god but the biblegod?

And on that note, I'd consider myself agnostic, until I get around an annoying Christian, at which point I am atheist. Not many of those, fortunately.

If there is a "God," he knows that I don't believe, and has chosen not to "reveal" himself to me. I'm content with knowing there's a POSSIBLITY of God being out there, that I might die without "knowing" Him, but Him being omniscient and omnipotent, He already knows the plan. If I die, without Him, it was meant to be that way.

Obviously faith is adequate for those who "know." For those of us that do not know, would you expect us to have some idiotic "faith" that someone else is right about something we don't know anything about? Read the bible? Or the Quran? Or whatever other holy book there is, we gain knowledge that way, but is that knowledge real? How do we know? It's not up to any of us to "develop" faith, it is the SEED that is planted, we are not the planter my friend. Why aren't you believers happy and faithful that your almighty God is in control of things? Proof that many Christians have ZERO faith is in the fact that many of you think this world is going to hell in a handbasket, and have to take care of things in the here and now. Why isn't what's going on realized as what's SUPPOSED to be going on? If any of you actually believed that good book of yours, you'd find your god in control. And would not fear.

Sounds like a false construct created to keep a grasp on the "faithful".



How can faith be adequate? It is self delusion, hardly adequate for any but those locked in the delusion. There is no knowing an unknown. No making a belief reality. Build your house of mirrors. Believing you know the unknown and have answers no one possesses. Those that truly know have stepped outside the illusion.

in the end, the god of the gaps is the only true god.


/the statement will be much more ironic if the higgs boson is found.

My thing is, if you're trying to figure out how things work where does god pop in? There's no evidence for a god, or anything really supporting it. It'd make far more sense to make a logical theory about a question we do not yet have the answer to then to just say a god did it. And in the end saying a god did something isn't going to answer anything because that only creates more questions, considering there's no evidence for a god or anything like it those questions we'd ask about that god would just about never be answered, because chances are there are no gods.

I believe there is a creator, not a god.... God by religious standards that have been set, basically means a tyrant that lords over everyone. There must be some sort of creator, because you can't get something from nothing. I don't believe in religion..No I don't trust any religion at all.. Then again I don't trust science either. I mean I think everything has a scientific explanation, though it's not always within human grasp. I just don't trust the establishment..... The OP said it "Define a god", well I believe in a creator, but who'se to say a creator didn't just start the process or something?....

I dunno, I've had experiences in my lifetime that others might find hard to believe.... Well most people would find 2+2=4 hard to believe if it weren't popular, comfortable, or "entertaining" to them. But that being beside the point. I've seen spirits, several times.... One time I had a near death experience actually. I've seen the future in my dreams also..... But I can't make myself do any of that stuff.... It just kinda happens every once in a blue moon. I dunno how to explain those occurances but it's not for me to explain, it's for me to learn something from......... But those are my experiences, which I can't share with others, so I can't expect anyone to take that at face value. This is my truth from my experiences.... If others are meant to know, they'll have similar experiences, and i do believe few others, but some others have... But I know some fully awakened people who haven't ever made such claims too..... I can't trust others experiences, though, I can only trust my experiences.

I won't go near ritual magick, I don't trust that stuff..... It's dangerous, even if people think they know what theyr doing.... Ultimately they'll be in debt to whatever forces theyr playing to. I've seen people end up in str8 jackets and rubber rooms for life because they went too far with that stuff. But I do wanna get Aleister Crowley's "Magick Theory and Practice" for study reasons.
My advice is unpopular but I won't evangelicize it..... Because if I did I'd be no better than the system I advocate against. But I will state where I stand..... It is better to have lived and died for something, than to exist and die for nothing. Wisdom is out there for those who want to seek it. But it's an individual journey. I'm no prophet or no guru I'm just a man, just flesh and bone. But in today's society we're given a psychopathic culture, where people HATE to reflect on themselves, to improve themselves, to think for themselves.... Like Europe now N. America is also in this anti-rational culture of unending denial, where right and wrong doesn't ever matter to anyone and personal responsibility is scoffed at.... Individuality is discouraged and demonized (especially in the education-- er, indoctrination system).... And with it, common since...... Most people hate to learn. They hate to work on themselves.... But I love to work on myself though, it's the only way to become better... The ego is heavily promoted in the system and people cling to whatever belief system they have chosen no matter how irrational it may be (be it politics, religion, whatever)... Nobody is looking for any truth in anything.
I'm just trying to learn to tolerate others opinions even if they don't have much life smarts or wisdom or depth.... I have to respect others' points of view, reguardless how faulty they might be..... Because I believe in freedom. Hell I'm just happy I am awake. Religions are all full of very true allegories "Narrow is the road for the few to salvation, broad is the road of the many to damnation".
It's an allegory, it's not meant to be taken literally. That doesn't mean I agree with religion either, but there is a small portion of truth in any one of them, but it's allegorical.
I would like to apologize for having gotten angry a couple of days ago and having insulted people..... I will refrain from insulting people because it's not very professional of me. From now on if I do see a flaw in something somebody says, I'll keep it to myself. I want to coexist, and not have to fight off the mobs here. Hopefully we can work towards a more peaceful relationship here on this forum... Though I probably won't post all that often. If you don't demonize me or attack me for being a "conspiracy theorist" I won't talk s**t to you for being a "sheep". Lets just try to respect eachothers' opinions and not get into insults and name calling, I think things will work better that way... I'm teaching myself to cope and to control my temper.

This creator came from nothing? You're not explaining anything by saying there must have been a creator, because then you must move onto the next question, what created the creator? Regardless of how far back you go, chances are something came from nothing, that or something else caused it. The answer to this question is going to be undeniably extremely complicated if there never was a nothing. And if you're going to say this God or Creator was always there and it's unexplainable, why not take a step back and just say the universe was always there and it's unexplainable, at least we have evidence that the universe exists, because there's not one shred that a God or Creator exists, there's more evidence going for the Big Bang than for God, I don't definitely believe in either though myself.


It's absolutely fine not to trust religion or science, but why do you believe there's a creator? There's absolutely nothing pointing to that possibility at all, instead of trying to make up the cause of why things are the way they are because you don't know, why not just be honest with yourself and to everyone else and just say you don't know instead of saying there had to be a creator. Does the Universe look designed or developed in any way? Galaxies, Solar Systems etc don't look very designed at all, and if you're saying that a creator may have just created the natural phenomenons that started these systems that's where you begin to sound a bit silly.


Why don't you try to test your experiences? For example if you have a dream of something that could you'd be as surprised if it actually happened as your other dreams why don't you ask yourself why that didn't happen? Make a little comparison of all your dreams that could be futuristic that don't come true compared with the ones that do and you'll begin to see that maybe these things really are just coincidences. Math differs far from what you're describing. People can't find 2+2=4 hard to believe because it can be demonstrated, you can't demonstrate to everyone the presence of spirits or anything like that. (which personally I think is your mind playing tricks on you or something else but I'm not you)

It all comes down to a personal determination:

1. I believe in the existance of God (Deism and Theism).
   
2. No one, including myself, can possibly know whether or not God exists (Agnosticism).
   
3. I know that there is no god (Atheism).

No one can prove the existance of God. No one can prove that everything in the Bible is true. No one can validate the existance of any beings or events that they claim to be diabolical, devine, paranormal, or supernatural in nature or origin.

Show me your God, and I'll believe.

not trusting religion, not trusting science, not trusting establishment, why trusting your gut then? I mean, if firmly believing in a creator, that would be a good question to make, however if it is just thinking about the possibility then it would make sense.


Bear in mind that claims about spirits and the afterlife are also comfortable, entertaining and popular among certain regions.


Well, mathematics seem to not have problems at all with the idea of extra spatial dimensions, then well, speculations and ideas begin from there, wether in physics or the paranormal.

There you go.....



Now, Believe!! !

For some reason my computer won't break down quotes, so bear with me here...
I only know a creator of some sort exists because of my experiences, which I can't prove to you or anyone else, therefore I can't expect you to take my word for it. It's my truth, from my experiences...
When I was 10 yrs old I did a seance with some friends, we put my gramma's pic in the middle of the circle (she had just died).... About 15 minutes later, me and my brother were standing there (in front of the road) and a red car drove by, what clearly appeared to be my dead gramma's corpse pointing to the sky with one hand, and driving with the other...
Scratch forward to when I was 17..... I was walking alone and it was a cold rainy day... I heard a voice come to me. It said "Your not free. America isn't free. The world isn't free." Just as clear as if someone were there talking to me, but I looked all around and there was nobody, I stood alone in the middle of a vacant parking lot on a dreary stormy day.... That was in the early days of my journey for knowledge, wisdom, truth, justice, liberty.... I knew I was alive for a reason. I sought out for the truth actually a small little bit before that, but waking up and seeking truth has been a gradual process over at least 15 yrs now... I could always since something was wrong in the world.
Scratch forward again to when I was 22, I was spending the night at a friend's house, next morning she was down stairs in the garage basement warming up her car... I was in the upstairs guest bedroom lacing up my boots, getting ready to go to a party with my friend... But all of a sudden all the energy leaves my body, I feel a cold draft around me, and everything gets dark and cloudy..... I fall over, looking up I see a ghost of a lady looking down on me... She was dressed in some sort of black lace bridal-like gown thingie, with a veil covering her face..... Well I whipped into seizures and had a near death experience... I don't remember much about whatever happened "on the other side" so to speak.... Hell I'd do good to scratch up traces of a memory of it..... But when I awake I heard my friend Maryanna yelling "Wake up or I'm calling 911!! !" frantically, she jumped on me and began smacking me and slamming my near-lifeless body into the ground.... I got up in a cold sweat, and she rushed me to ER... The doctors couldn't figure out what brought any of it on, I had no prior history of seizures...
Why would it be silly to consider the possibility such a creator just started the process? Is it because it's an original thought?

As for the 2+2 argument, I don't expect you to take my word for any of this I've said previously. I'd be foolish if I did. But other things that should be obvious that I say, that are unrelated to this, like when I posted the clip about the guy admitting to the NWO and weather manipulation technology, openly admitting it, and the best anyone could do is attack the source of the link (which is irrelevant because you had the guy admitting to this s**t) and everyone's jumping through hoops and doing back flips to deny the obvious....
I then gave a link to Henry Kissinger admitting all this and going into detail and people were still in denial.... I mean how is your opinion worth anything if you only see what you wanna see, and only hear what you wanna hear?..... The source of the link is irrelevant when you've got an open guilty plea right in front of your face. I gave you 2 of them, I could have given more. Your mostly all addicted to dysfunctional clingy thought patterns (dialectic process, "liberal OR conservative", "science OR religion", "capitalism OR communism", etc etc) and a dysfunctional system that really doesn't care one iotta about you. I honestly don't understand why it's so hard to believe that power corrupts. All you'd have to do is open a history book.....
Natural man, tribal man, did not think in dialectic process, because his survival counted on him being more survival conscious. When natural man was conflicted with a situation, he didn't have option a and option b, there were numerous ways he had to be able to solve a problem.... Natural man also doesn't get diseases like cancer, polio, tooth decay, etc, in the natural environment... All that s**t came with "civilization". Most of those illnesses were created in labs. AIDS, caner, polio, leprosy, were all created in labs.... s**t like tooth decay and cavities came from eating un-natural foods. This entire system is and always has been there to monitor people and study people. Plato wrote about this in Republic. If you've ever read that book, have you ever wondered why he had such emaculate knowledge of human behavior? Read ghost in the machine too, by Arthur Koestler... It explains how they lobotmized society out of their self preservation instincts via laced vaccinations...

But I'm not here to push that on anyone..... I just wanna coexist. You can believe what you wanna believe and I'll continue to look for answers. But I'll still post where I stand though, if you can respect my opinion I can respect yours. I'm not trying to get into tossing insults anymore, it's not productive.

Last edited by snake321 on 24 Sep 2008, 4:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

excuse me if I swear, it's just a habit. I'm not getting bitchy with you or anything.

Your god is a Botticelli painting? I can believe that...

FYI:

"Birth of Venus"
Sandro Botticelli, c. 1482–1486
Tempera on canvas
172.5 × 278.5 cm, 67.9 × 109.6 in
Uffizi, Florence

Until the average ratio of "questions answered":"new questions asked" by each scientific discovery rises above one, I will still hold the belief that scientific discovery alone cannot explain the nature of the universe. Newtonian physics would have been fine, but some dips**t with the weirdest hairdo ever had to ask the question "well then why does time slow down when you go fast?"


Do you get sexually aroused by the Higgs Boson?


PS: I think Einstein was one of the greatest scientific minds of modern times; calling him a dips**t was just a joke...

No problem there I do it from time to time as well. And I'm not going to argue with you about your experiences, considering I can't basically. And it's basically apparent there's a new world order, they aren't even covering that up, there's nothing we can do so just go with it. Yes, I know it sucks but who cares in the end, if there was something us few people who realize it could do we would do it, and many of us are trying but it doesn't affect it in the end. Just hang in there I suppose.

in theory, don't we all?