Is this appropriate to say to Jews?

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Ragtime
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19 Jan 2009, 3:50 pm

Bea wrote:

I'd bet that very few of the Jews you have met are members of the Zionist faction of the Israeli government. (Do they have relatives in Israel?) And that many of your Muslim acquaintences have close relatives living in Palestine or neighboring countries. There is a reason for the hate, and it did not originate in religion.

A "reason for the hate"? There is never a reason to hate a specific race, or anyone else for that matter.

On the contrary, hate of a person or a people is always cited as being unreasoning, blind, and destructive.

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Bea
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19 Jan 2009, 4:50 pm

A previous post by Bea:

Quote:

Just take, for example, one of the ways the Israeli govt. deals with waste management. In some areas they don't bother to build waste treatment plants -- they just pump the raw sewage onto Palestinian land. Nice neighbors, right? And that wall they are building that cuts through the middle of towns? Its placement is frequently dictated by the location of the water aquifers under the ground. Water for the Israelis, none for the Palestinians. Evidently some people who survived the Warsaw ghetto have decided to try it out on Gaza.

Oh, by the way Ragtime -- I've decided that your home is in the way of my settlement. The bulldozers will be there in five minutes. Make sure you wake up your deaf grandma before they get there, because the dozer drivers don't bother to check the houses for inhabitants.

But don't hate me. That would be unreasonable.

MR_BOGAN
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19 Jan 2009, 4:58 pm

Ragtime wrote:

MR_BOGAN wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Legato wrote:

I have nothing against jews as a religion or as a "people", but I very much dislike the state of Israel. Moreover, I hate how a stupid little corner of the desert influences our (American) foreign policy so heavily.

What is happening in Israel is the surrogate struggle between civilization and barbarism. Since the U.S. won't take an explicit stand it aids the side that does. In a sense Israel is fighting our battle and Israelis are bleeding. Eventually the war will come to us (as it did on 9/11) and we will have to fight and bleed also. By the way - if we lose our children shall dwell in the Shadow of the Mosque for hundreds of years. Is that what you want?

"Welcome back to the fight, Mr. Blaine. Now I know that our side shall win" -- Best line from Casablanca

ruveyn

I read that in the the war Israel lost 10 troops and 3 civilians to rocket attacks. Where as there has been over 1300 gaza civilian deaths so far. :roll:

What ever government is in Israel it should be declared a barbaric terrorist organization.

Yes, how dare Israel not lose more lives! :roll:

Is that the substance of your complaint? That the casualties weren't equal on both sides?

:lol:

O-kay....

To me the causalty difference says a lot. I keep hearing that the Isrealies and the good guys and the Palestinians are the bad guys, but when you look at the facts it is the other way round.

Israel is state built on religious garbage about some ancient nation that existed three thousand years ago and only existed for a few hundred years.

Israel shouldn't exist and they know it, legally and morally they have not got a leg to stand on. That is why they are oppressing the people they stole the land from into submission. Which in turn is where the hatred comes from. :roll:

When Jesus does come back like you think, it will be a good idea not to tell him about the 4 million Palestinian refugees. Best just to say something else and avoid that one. :wink:

Ragtime
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19 Jan 2009, 5:15 pm

MR_BOGAN wrote:

To me the causalty difference says a lot. I keep hearing that the Isrealies and the good guys and the Palestinians are the bad guys, but when you look at the facts it is the other way round.

When Jesus does come back like you think, it will be a good idea not to tell him about the 4 million Palestinian refugees. Best just to say something else and avoid that one. :wink:

If you've actually read my last three posts in this thread, and you still think staunchly along the lines of your latest post, quoted above, then education can't help you in this matter. But, by the way, how many other nations that claim sovereignty over their land have only existed a few hundred years? For instance, your own.

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Ragtime
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19 Jan 2009, 5:21 pm

Bea wrote:

A previous post by Bea:

Quote:

You are deluded, I'm sorry to say. That happens when you believe propaganda by liars. :idea:

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Bea
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19 Jan 2009, 5:45 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Quote:

You are deluded, I'm sorry to say. That happens when you believe propaganda by liars.

Tell that to Rachel Corrie's parents. They probably pray every night that they will wake up in the morning to
find out it was all a lie, that their daughter wasn't crushed to death by an Israeli bulldozer when she tried to
stop it from destroying a Palestinian house.

Golda Meir said, "The Palestinians, who are they? They don't exist." Sounds to me like a long-time foreign policy stand
by the Israeli government.

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19 Jan 2009, 5:46 pm

By the way, Ragtime. Your five minutes are up. There goes your house.

greenblue
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19 Jan 2009, 6:14 pm

...

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Last edited by greenblue on 19 Jan 2009, 8:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Bea
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19 Jan 2009, 7:45 pm

Sorry, Greenblue, but I found that offensive. I've just been viewing a group of photos a friend sent, the photos on the left side are from the holocaust. The photos on the right side are from the crisis in Gaza. It is haunting how much the photos resemble each other -- both sides depicting horror.

greenblue
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19 Jan 2009, 8:18 pm

Hmmm, Yes, I think you are right, now that I saw that I was wondering wether that was very innapropriate to say, I just wanted to answer a silly comment with another silly comment

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MR_BOGAN
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26 Jan 2009, 3:59 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykmv7s-Q0J8[/youtube]

Ragtime is it appropriate for this young Israel settler to brag about how the Jews killed Jesus?

I don't think that is appropriate behavour.

ruveyn
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27 Jan 2009, 7:09 am

MR_BOGAN wrote:

Israel shouldn't exist and they know it, legally and morally they have not got a leg to stand on. That is why they are oppressing the people they stole the land from into submission. Which in turn is where the hatred comes from. :roll:

When Jesus does come back like you think, it will be a good idea not to tell him about the 4 million Palestinian refugees. Best just to say something else and avoid that one. :wink:

What you are saying in effect is that Jews shouldn't exist. Why aren't we extinct? Why are we still around bothering people like you? Why don't we just disappear? Right?

By the way if there is anything to the Scriptures (I doubt it) Jesus will remember that He promised the Land to His very special and treasured people.

And for Christ's sake stop blaming Israel and the Jews for 9/11. It was done by Muslims whose extreme form of their religion drove them crazy.

ruveyn

monty
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27 Jan 2009, 12:45 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Is this appropriate to say to Jews? Palestinian supporters to Jews: "Go back to the oven." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,477450,00.html

No. Those words are intended to hurt or anger.

But is it appropriate to occupy an area, take over large areas and displace people, treat them like donkeys, and expect them to show gratitude?

monty
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27 Jan 2009, 12:54 pm

ruveyn wrote:

What you are saying in effect is that Jews shouldn't exist. Why aren't we extinct? Why are we still around bothering people like you? Why don't we just disappear? Right?

I didn't read it that way - unlike you, he doesn't equate Israel with Jewish survival or existence. NYC and Miami have more Jews than Jerusalem, but there is no problem there because the normal rules of civilization apply to everyone - if a Jewish person wants to move next door or buy my house, OK ... but if he tries to drive me out while waving some scroll and claiming God says it is ok, it would become a real problem.

Israel, on the other hand, continues to expand outside it's legally recognized boundaries, continues to take land and water and other resources, based on some mystical claim that is thousands of years old and rather dubious. Only a fool would try to disconnect the rockets that are launched from Gaza from the past 50 years of violent Jewish activity in Israel and the occupied territories.

Last edited by monty on 27 Jan 2009, 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bea
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27 Jan 2009, 12:59 pm

Ruveyn, the world would be bereft, and grieving, if the Jews all disappeared.

As for the scriptures that say God promised that land to "his very special people,"
I recall something in the scriptures that says "Thou shalt not kill."

From what I have heard and read, the only basis for Israel's claim to that land
(other than the military might that backs up the current occupation) is a religious
belief that the land was promised to the Jews by God. The Palestinians also have
religious beliefs, such as the oddly marked stone that for centuries was believed to
hold the footprint of the prophet Mohammed's daughter Fatima. This stone was
buried beneath tons of rubble by Israeli bulldozers. (Now, was that a neighborly thing to do?)

As I understand it, a Jewish civilization flourished in that area for a short 200 years
a couple of thousand years ago. That civilization was driven out by Christians.
The Christians were replaced by Muslims. The Muslims have continuously occupied
that land now for several hundred years - much longer than the Jewish civilization.
And they have religious beliefs about their homeland, too. Can you tell me why the world
should show more respect to the religious beliefs of the Jews than those of the Palestinians?

Last edited by Bea on 27 Jan 2009, 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bea
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27 Jan 2009, 1:37 pm

The following is from an email I received from a friend. Please watch the "60 Minutes" segment referred to here.
Bea

Quote:

Dear Friends,

Please watch this important segment online of the January 24, 2009 "CBS 60 Minutes" television program about the mistreatment of Palestinian people, including the expansion of Israeli settlements, evictions, humiliating checkpoints, 'Apartheid' roads and wall, and families imprisoned in their own homes:

[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4752349n]

THEN, please send a thank you to CBS for last night’s “60 Minutes” program that outlined in detail the injustices suffered by the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israelis.

The 13-minute report by journalist Bob Simon showed the damage to the cause of peace caused by the ever-expanding and illegal Israeli settlements, the evictions of Palestinians from their homes, the humiliation they experience at Israeli checkpoints, the “Apartheid” roads and wall built by Israel, and the bizarre experience of Palestinian families imprisoned in their own homes by Israeli soldiers.

Thank CBS and the producers of ’60 Minutes’ for having the courage to show the American people the truth about the injustices that are at the core of the Middle East conflict. This powerful report shows clearly that the only way to resolve the conflict and bring peace and stability to the region is to address the fundamental issues of justice that have been ignored by the world community for far too long.

IMMEDIATE ACTIONS REQUESTED:

1. CONTACT “60 Minutes” - They are getting a lot of “heat” from the vocal minority which support Israel’s brutal and counterproductive actions. It is important that those who value peace with justice in the region make the effort to support balanced media coverage.
Tel: 212-975-2006
Fax: 212-975-2019
E-Mail: 60m@cbsnews.com, kev@cbsnews.com

OR Mail:
60 Minutes
555 West 57th St.
New York, NY 10019

2. COMMENT ONLINE about the segment. (Always be polite and respectful.) Hundreds of people have already made their views known.

3. SHARE this important alert with your colleagues, friends and family. Post to personal blogs.

4. CONTACT YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES to ask that they view the CBS report

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