Disturbing Passages in Holy Books
29 May 2025, 2:21 pm
Here’s a crazy passage in Numbers involving the death of 15,000+ people that I don’t think came up yet. 250 Israelite leaders want to revolt against Moses and Aaron because they want more autonomy.
36 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 37 “Tell Eleazar son of Aaron the priest to take the censers out of the blaze, then scatter the fire far and wide. 38 For the censers of these sinners have become holy at the cost of their lives. Make them into hammered plates as a covering for the altar, for they presented them before the Lord and they became holy. Thus they shall be a sign to the Israelites.” 39 So Eleazar the priest took the bronze censers that had been presented by those who were burned, and they were hammered out as a covering for the altar— 40 a reminder to the Israelites that no outsider, who is not of the descendants of Aaron, shall approach to offer incense before the Lord, so as not to become like Korah and his congregation, just as the Lord had said to him through Moses.
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“The darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.”
— from Four Quartets by T.S. Eliot
05 Jun 2025, 12:25 pm
The ridiculous story involving Onan has already come up in this thread. As was the custom, he married and slept with his sister-in-law - Tamar. (Her first husband had been put to death by God for some alleged wickedness.)
12 In course of time the wife of Judah, Shua’s daughter, died; when Judah’s time of mourning was over, he went up to Timnah to his sheepshearers, he and his friend Hirah the Adullamite. 13 When Tamar was told, “Your father-in-law is going up to Timnah to shear his sheep,” 14 she put off her widow’s garments, put on a veil, wrapped herself up, and sat down at the entrance to Enaim, which is on the road to Timnah. She saw that Shelah was grown up, yet she had not been given to him in marriage. 15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be a prostitute, for she had covered her face. 16 He went over to her at the roadside and said, “Come, let me come in to you,” for he did not know that she was his daughter-in-law. She said, “What will you give me, that you may come in to me?” 17 He answered, “I will send you a kid from the flock.” And she said, “Only if you give me a pledge until you send it.” 18 He said, “What pledge shall I give you?” She replied, “Your signet and your cord and the staff that is in your hand.” So he gave them to her and went in to her, and she conceived by him. 19 Then she got up and went away, and taking off her veil she put on the garments of her widowhood.
20 When Judah sent the kid by his friend the Adullamite to recover the pledge from the woman, he could not find her. 21 He asked the townspeople, “Where is the prostitute who was at Enaim by the wayside?” But they said, “No prostitute has been here.” 22 So he returned to Judah and said, “I have not found her; moreover, the townspeople said, ‘No prostitute has been here.’ ” 23 Judah replied, “Let her keep the things as her own, otherwise we will be laughed at; you see, I sent this kid, and you could not find her.”
24 About three months later Judah was told, “Your daughter-in-law Tamar has prostituted herself; moreover, she is pregnant as a result of prostitution.” And Judah said, “Bring her out, and let her be burned.” 25 As she was being brought out, she sent word to her father-in-law, “It was the owner of these who made me pregnant.” And she said, “Take note, please, whose these are, the signet and the cord and the staff.” 26 Then Judah acknowledged them and said, “She is more in the right than I, since I did not give her to my son Shelah.” And he did not lie with her again.
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“The darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.”
— from Four Quartets by T.S. Eliot
27 Jun 2025, 8:52 pm
This passage seems to be referring to child sacrifice. YHWH is the speaker.
“The firstborn of your sons you shall give to me. 30 You shall do the same with your oxen and with your sheep: seven days it shall remain with its mother; on the eighth day you shall give it to me.
“Yes, YHWH wants you to sacrifice your sons: a conversation with Dr. Heath Dewrell, Part 1”
02 Aug 2025, 12:45 am
I have seen this post before but try to avoid controversial things and you cannot unsell my faith to me. There are a number of posts on the same theme so I will give my overall opinion. I am a Christian and have had been since a child.
My opinions are formed and if I want to read on something new it is to try and respond to others with more information and will look at things again for new lenses sometimes like I looked at the Sodom story recently to review its spin on homosexuality when I was asked this question of my views by someone who wasn't a Christian they wanted to my views as someone who was a Christian. This story God as seen being violent by some clearly stated that he would not destroy that city if a small number of righteous people remained. Only a few were found who were told to leave it. This doesn't sound violent. I think that God's stance on non violence is clearly expressed in Psalm 11 and God is not in the business of lying. Psalm 11-" The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth, Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup."
Regarding Sodom I found that he never wanted to destroy this city due to homosexuality but poor behaviour like demanding money for crossing a bridge and most importantly what would have been a gang attack on angelic beings. Peoples everyday carnal lifestyles was never the biggest issue so it is often wrongly told.
I studied Just war theories and ethics at university preventive and premptive war methods. There is no need in me skirting around things. I think that God is always proportionate and often last resort. The biggest issue is justice. I see God as an overall general and someone who needs to make decisions as the father of all and is the last issuer on justice and someone needs to be. Sometimes they are not pretty and war never is. It can be very harsh, but sometimes it needs to be with collateral damage. A 40 year assault is extremely long for God to be involved in. He gave numerous chances and warnings to turn back and listen to him, the point is not often many actually do. Hence why it took so long in the first place. They often ignored his prophets which revealed his divine revelation and word.
"Numbers 14:27" " How long shall I bear with this evil congreation, which murmur against me? I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel, which the murmur against me?"
The stringent assaults were necessary but very harsh as it was extended and protracted. You know to that God severed the Israelites people for himself to fulfil the messianic prophecies to get to his son who had Shem and David roots. The prophecies stated that they would experience a life of being persecuted which is diabolical. The Leviticus and many of laws of priests are really what guides morality for his Chosen people only. He was very Holy and wanted his Chosen people to be to. He has got many faces and can be very kind to his people to and even the offerings in the Temple courtyards shows he was ready to overlook a lot of peoples misdoings. He even didn't abandon some people who sin like murder against the Ten Commandments. He will be praised for his judgements in the Book of Revelations so will be judged with no wrongdoing.
I do not think he supports mistreatment of people, I have never read that or experienced it myself. Real poverty existed for non Jews who were not given Manna or Water by God, how would they survive without the care of others at times. I am non demontional myself and form my opinions by myself and do not prescribe to anything but that is what I feel.
I pointed out Chabad website for learning more about the true heart of God regarding Judaism. Also, you use the Old Testament a lot and I see little mention of the Talmud or Rabbinic to get true heart of the Old Testament as well and especially for today’s Jews.
He gave his son, imagine watching him on the Cross from above...agony for any Father for 3 days and every private thought and groan of his Son in turmoil he could hear as well. His Son presents a new law.
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The Gifts of the Holy Spirit as a Christian diagnosed with autism
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02 Aug 2025, 6:57 am
The Bible may claim that God doesn’t love violence, but based on many passages in the Bible that have been cited, his actions demonstrate otherwise. Killing babies, committing genocide as he encourages throughout the Pentateuch, and enslaving people are never just or proportionate responses. Giving his innocent son as a sacrifice is f****d up. It doesn’t improve God’s image in my eyes in any way, if he were real, that is.
The veracity of Richard Dawkins quote from The God Delusion has been demonstrated in this thread with many clear examples:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
I have cited a couple passages from the Talmud in this thread as well. However, I want to make it clear that this isn’t about Judaism; it’s about toxic passages in holy books. The Quran, New Testament, Book of Mormon, and other writings were cited, but the Old Testament appears more often because it has more problematic passages and is more violent than the Quran and New Testament according to the research. It’s also longer.
02 Aug 2025, 8:48 am
The veracity of Richard Dawkins quote from The God Delusion has been demonstrated in this thread with many clear examples:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
I have cited a couple passages from the Talmud in this thread as well. However, I want to make it clear that this isn’t about Judaism; it’s about toxic passages in holy books. The Quran, New Testament, Book of Mormon, and other writings were cited, but the Old Testament appears more often because it has more problematic passages and is more violent than the Quran and New Testament according to the research. It’s also longer.
We will have to agree to disagree. However, I think you are perhaps using misusing the words here like genocide. I don't think there was any in the Old Testament. Let's be real, these laws were not invented then. They was invented in UN in the 20 century. You cannot apply an old system laws to something which never existed with my rational mind. They went along with those more in tune with the works of St Thomas Aquinas, St Augustine with the skeleton of Just war pradigmatics which emphasised justice above all. This went onto the work of Samuel Pufendorf.
Now Genocide was coined by the UN and its full history you can read on its website. For in my understanding if you follow just war practices such as UN Article 51 you cannot be tried with such a serious crime as Genocide.
God is the justice decider for the world which is what they had at that time and the final decision rested with him. He did not commit genocide. Also, words like terrorism are modern day inventions.
May be look at these articles if you have not-
https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition
https://legal.un.org/repertory/art51.shtml
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The Gifts of the Holy Spirit as a Christian diagnosed with autism
https://www.autismchristian.com/
02 Aug 2025, 9:03 am
Maneuvers were often not about self-defense but conquest. Also, killing children and infants would never be warranted.
I should point out that archaeological evidence does not support many of these accounts of conquest (or the Exodus), so they’re more about propaganda and tall tales than anything else.
02 Aug 2025, 9:44 am
Maneuvers were often not about self-defense but conquest. Also, killing children and infants would never be warranted.
I should point out that archaeological evidence does not support many of these accounts of conquest (or the Exodus), so they’re more about propaganda and tall tales than anything else.
I don't have much habit of backdating things in history when they didn't exist. Such as awarding Saints who were never diagnosed autism retrospectively with that condition. I keep an open mind about these things though. There are other variables to consider in the environment since then as well. Here there is history, religious values, customs and traditions.
Back to the theories of warfare. Preemptive war if are going to use modern war and humanitarian terms to apply to the Bible you need to consider preemptive war. Grave offences and violations were made and reacted on by God to his Chosen people and people always didn't listen to God at all. I think may be seperate peoples mistakes from what God has not said and gave command to. Like his commnd for Jonah was for repentance to the gentile's those were outside the chosen people which suggets a theme of reconcilation and not war.
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https://www.autismchristian.com/
02 Aug 2025, 10:22 am
There’s still no excuse for the slavery, killing of children, infants, or genocide that’s in the Bible. As I mentioned above, the conquests and Exodus didn’t happen. It’s also unlikely that non-Israelites were as different from Israelites as the Bible paints them as being, not that all genocidal accounts in the Bible are about self-defense or punishing wicked behavior - I could provide passages that are centered on unprovoked conquests, but they already have been cited in this thread. The Bible writers had a specific agenda in mind when they wrote or edited their portions of the Bible. It was about propaganda.
This thread is about citing disturbing passages in holy books. Do you have any you’d like to share?
02 Aug 2025, 12:28 pm
Note: 'Spoiled' For 'Novel Formatting'
And Length of On Topic Response.
"Disturbing Passages In Holy Books"
This is such a Useful Thread on the Wrong
Planet and Topic for Ongoing Discussion.
Thanks So Much TwilightPrincess For Starting
It and Keeping It Alive With More Disturbing Aspects
About Passages in Holy Books. i Appreciate Truth, No Matter
How Hard it May Be to Hear or Even Understand; Therefore, i've
Kept This Thread Bookmarked in my Files For Detailed Reference If
the Need Arises
in my Locality
That Once
Had the
Guinness World
Record for Most Churches
Per Capita; Also recognized by
Social Sciences as One of the Most
Difficult Regions in the United States
to be 'Different;'
In Other Words,
Varying From Local
Traditions and Norms
For Being Human; Anyway, the Most
Disturbing Passages oF all to Me come
in the New Testament, Where an All Loving,
Merciful, Forgiving God as Claimed at Least,
Burns and Tortures those Forever Who Don't Follow
the Rules of the Book; Even in Matthew, after Professing
Love The Enemy As Neighbor and Even Turn the Other Cheek;
And Then Doing an Amazing Reversal of Profession Back to Burning
Folks Forever
Who Don't
Feed and
Clothe the
'Poor Immigrants
at the Southern Border;'
Per What You Do to the Least
of them You Do to me; Yet it is so
Frigging Hypocritical to Give Up on Someone
And Burn Them Forever for Breaking a Rule in a Book.
It's Not Only Hypocritical, It is the Most Evil Action Any Ghost Author,
Or Scribe Ever Came Up With to Help Expand the Roman Empire, etc., By Using
Big Enough Sticks and Carrots After Death to Motivate Dudes to Die to expand the
Empire
And Tribes
Even More
From the
Old Testament
Tribal God to the
New Evil Professed in the
New Testament too; However,
It's a Fairly Big Book With Innumerable
Ghost Authors and Scribes and Other Editors
Making What it is Today; It's Not Surprising there
are a few
Kind Words
By Some Ghost
Authors, etc, too,
Like "Love One Another;"
Or How about Just Being
Kind to People Day to Day
Lifting Them Up For the Warmth
Humanity Also Brings Far and Away
From Stories of Burning and Torturing Any
Part of
Existence
Forever; It is
Clear that the
'Trump MeMe'
Contributed to A Major
Part of Power And Selfish Greed corrupts
In the Books oF Old, Dusty, and Antiquated too...
Yet Humans Tend to Stick to Tradition no Matter How
Poisonous
A Bone for
A Dog to Chew on Becomes...
It's Sad and may Contribute
Greatly to the end of Our Species
Sooner
than
Later Indeed...
i Often See Those Threatening
Passages on small Pamphlets
on the Top of Latrines in Local
Store Restrooms; They End up
Where
They
Truly belong...
Clogging Up The Drain..
And Potentially Leading
to an early exit of Humanity...
For Good...
depending
on how one
Views it All...
i Visit a Catholic Church
Every Sunday Without Fail,
Although Usually 20 Minutes
Late or So to Get in as they have
Uplifting Songs Actually Written by
Gay Jesuit Priests, and It's Easy for me
to Forgive Ignorance and Set Loving my
Neighbors Above That Common Human Trait.
The Human Condition Is Not Particularly Rational;
By All the
Current Events,
This is More Evident
Than Ever Before in Broad
Daylight Out of What Used
to Hide in Motels Late at Night...
On the Other Hand, It is what is;
For me at Least; 'When in Rome'
i Make the Best of What is and
Continue
to Thrive For Real;
Like the River, i Effortlessly
in Ease Flow Around the Ignorance,
Even When It's All Dammed Up
i Dance Around the Dam as
Easily As Singing Around it too
With
SMiLes...
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02 Aug 2025, 9:41 pm
This thread is about citing disturbing passages in holy books. Do you have any you’d like to share?
I have studied religious studies at university and read various texts which included the Quaran as well. My view is different to yours. Although there are portions of it that could justify violence, they still had the potential to be read very differently by two different people with different mindsets. One person could use it to justify violence like a Holy war and they could take it wrong actually or one could bolster their spiritual journey and quest in reverse and may even seek to fast through it to renew themselves. I tend to think that there is not really any such thing and it is based on the persons mindset.
Slavery was abolished when in the world and it is difficult in judging a world before and after and completely different world values. As I wrote with Haggai in another thread. I never read of any bondsperson who God directed to be mistreated.
Now unless you are talking about Satanism which I have never looked into or want to I would expect that would be full of portions in it to promote violence.
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The Gifts of the Holy Spirit as a Christian diagnosed with autism
https://www.autismchristian.com/
03 Aug 2025, 6:10 am
Hagar was horribly mistreated. I go into her story here.
03 Aug 2025, 6:42 am
As I wrote these things are not nice and always very difficult, but can happen in war and especially over decades spanning. The venting post on religion thread I got the impression you may be didn't want to further discussion in that post and that you perhaps wanted it more in another post and yours seemed most suitable. The first few pages in this thread people are giving their opinion whether they agree with your opinions or not. I was responding with my opinion to what I had read but generally as the thread was so large, I couldn't do it all respond individually.
I have nothing more to say and I will leave you to continue your thread now.
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The Gifts of the Holy Spirit as a Christian diagnosed with autism
https://www.autismchristian.com/
03 Aug 2025, 7:28 am
The Bible says that God doesn’t lie or that it is impossible for him to do so (Hebrews 6:18), but here is just one example of God willfully deceiving people (there are others!):
Just as hiring someone to kill someone for your purposes makes you a murderer, hiring someone to lie for your purposes makes you a liar.
The point is that the Bible is not consistent. Its god is said to possess certain traits, but he often fails to live up to them. He seems more like a very human creation than a perfect, loving, just, peace-loving being that created humans.
03 Aug 2025, 12:13 pm
The Bible says that God doesn’t lie or that it is impossible for him to do so (Hebrews 6:18), but here is just one example of God willfully deceiving people (there are others!):
Just as hiring someone to kill someone for your purposes makes you a murderer, hiring someone to lie for your purposes makes you a liar.
The point is that the Bible is not consistent. Its god is said to possess certain traits, but he often fails to live up to them. He seems more like a very human creation than a perfect, loving, just, peace-loving being that created humans.
Everyone has their opinions, I wanted to say that with any religious text you have to approach it with that right mindset and that doesn't equal aplogetics at all. The Bible if you are a Christian and spritual person it needs to be read with a spiritual mind and annexe of that carnal and wordly mind when analysing it. I think that goes for any religious text as long as they are not doing harm, for me should be left to be. You seem to be quite humanitarian in your views and good luck.
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The Gifts of the Holy Spirit as a Christian diagnosed with autism
https://www.autismchristian.com/
03 Aug 2025, 1:03 pm
If my mindset led me to the conclusion that killing children or slavery was ever justified under any circumstance, I’d reevaluate it.
