does the sexism in the men only area bother you?

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Actually, I'm in FL Mark. I haven't had such come up in management training for that. They've always been pretty specific.

Harassment can and does go over into voluntary events. Sports is the first one that comes to mind because the results are so in our face when it gets all over the news.


My only point with all of that is bad habits are bad habits and we Aspies have enough problems socially. If we do something on a regular basis here and it seems acceptable, we are going to end up doing something wrong in a work place because it's a habit. Then, it will be real trouble. I'm kind of looking at that as taking the behavior and drawing it out into it's possible conclusions rather than just looking at the behavior on here as an isolated thing. For us, with our challenges in that area, I think that becomes a valid thing we should look at. Now whether we can realistically do anything as a site or you and the rest as moderators, I have no idea. Only you and Alex can speak to that. I'm just throwing out the idea to mull over and discuss.


However, I don't want us to focus on specific incidents so much as the overall effect on the website. Personally, I don't care if it's in the Men's forum because I don't go in there, but I am bothered by the way a kid could wander all over and see some of this stuff, like the things I talked about in Love and Dating. I can see where that is going to be off-putting and we're going to get a reputation we don't want if we don't come up with another solution. I think the same is going to hold true for many women.

Unfortunately, those are realties we live with as well. Many of us have been looked at quickly and judged. People certainly do that on the web. It's three click theory. They take three clicks and if they don't see what they want or they don't like what they see, they move on. Businesses try to stick to three click theory to get people to use their site. On here, you are going to get that and we just need to decide where we are going and if it's worth it to end up with potential bad publicity.


Here's contingency planning, so just take it for what it is. Remove the personal. If I was looking at a contingency plan in FL (which I do), I'd look at all potential disaster situations and how they might come about, then recovery methods. However, I also look at prevention methods. Are you with me?

So, that's how I'm looking at this. You have parents who could freak out, women who could freak out, but the worst of all would be a reporter (at least that I can come up with so far). For reporters, the next big story is what makes them. What catches people's eyes (and again unfortunately) is bad news. We all see it. It's kind of that talk show mentality that is pervasive for right now. So, you get a reporter talking to Alex about the site and they wander out here and join to look around and see what it's really about. Then, they see all this stuff that they probably won't understand, never having been in our shoes. All they see is all this anger, not where it comes from or that getting it out can start to heal it. They see the anger and what looks to be hostility. Now factor in the fact that they will eventually figure out kids can see that. I can tell you now, do not count on the goodness of people to realize that shutting down a site for Autism overriding their need to get the big story and make their career. It just won't happen and it is a serious error on our part if we buy into that.

This should be a gap that we can correct easily. If I were looking at you as a contingency plan solely, I would say the same thing. Let's fix this and avoid the problem. You are probably just seeing that side of me coming out because I look with that eye now. It's a critical eye, but not in a men vs. women, AS vs. NT kind of way. Does that make sense? I'm looking at it from a potential fallout situation perspective.

And as for the kids angle, it won't help us that it's voluntary. Myspace tried that defense and it fell flat immediately. There's too much fear and too many social factors at play now.


So, that's just my opinion. You all have to figure out if it's useful to you or not. I'll probably continue to talk to the guys who are in out of control hurt and anger and try to get them to see the bigger picture. But, I still won't let my nephews out here. There's too much they can wander into where they won't get the context or the bigger picture. They just won't have the apparatus yet to distinguish between whether that behavior is acceptable or not. And here in FL, it's not going to be acceptable in their schools to parrot those views on women (in their case girls). It would probably get them kicked out. They have enough challenges already. I don't need to let them wander into something that adds to the mix. They don't have my older perspective.


So, hopefully I explained it well enough that time. As I said, it's just something to mull over in your head. It isn't meant to make anyone feel defensive or persecuted. We've all certainly had enough of that already. If it read that way before, I am sorry. I didn't mean for it to do so and I know that when I write it comes off that way sometimes.

I certainly appreciate your input. I think discussion of the issue is more important than the issue itself. That may be an error on my part, but that's the way I am.

No, I think that is very valid. We tend (as people in general, not just Aspies) to get so caught up in the specific problem that all useful information that can be gleaned from it gets lost. I've just had this beaten (figuratively of course) out of me by my work. I'm forced to constantly look at the big picture for solutions when I write contingency plans. Then, I have to go back and argue with the departments to convince them. LOL It's the same thing. My eye is just trained now and I like to analyze things instead of get emotional so it suits me.

If we didn't do this process the wheel would not have been invented and we'd all be hunting with spears (well, you would be, I'd be killed off because I can't cook LOL). Mulling over ideas is a good thing. It probably saved my life!

Sexism in general bothers me. A woman has no chance in a male dominated area.

Hale,

Where do you work?

I work in technology and it's very male dominated, but I haven't found that. In fact, for 10 months I contracted as a Tech Writer in a Security Engineering Firm (they made detectors with xrays for airports, shipyards, trucking weigh stations, etc.). They hired me over several men even though the other writers (and candidates) were both men and either engineers themselves or formerly technicians. They liked me in the interview because they showed me a schematic and I understood it and explained to them how the doc should be laid out. I'm pretty foo foo looking so it wasn't because I "looked" like I could do it. I was hired based on my talent. That's usually how I get hired.

Men are usually the ones pushing for me to try to move up the management ladder. I'm the one who has no desire to go. (I have a house and a car, what am I going to do, buy two?) And just as many of my bosses have been women as men. It seems to be a fair split given the fact that 90% of the people I work with are men. That's changing as women get into technology and I haven't noticed the guys treating the women badly. These women aren't shrinking violets. They'd probably let them have it. The men seem to just appreciate their talents.

Anyway, that's why I was wondering what industry you meant. Maybe you see something I don't locked in my little technology attic as I am.

I will tell you this, having grown up mostly around men (starting with my five brothers). If men say something that bothers you, just say, "Knock the s**t off. I don't want to hear it." They'll shut up. With men, you can't be subtle. You just have to say it straight out. Although, putting a roll of duct tape on their desk and telling them to tape their mouths shut when they just can't resist the urge to talk that way works too. They start taking it around to each other and putting it on their desks whenever they mess up. I did have to train the engineers with that. They were pretty out of control. But, they were fine with me. I just gave them the duct tape. They created the game that whoever got the duct tape the most times in a week had to buy them all lunch. It took two weeks and all the crap stopped. And, we all worked together just fine. I guess I react differently because I've just grown up around it and accept it for the immature behavior it is. They just get used to doing that and forget. Hence, my caution of them doing it on here. People do forget. I've seen women at work do it too.

But, that's just my experience. Everyone has to find what works best for them.

That's a sexist remark.

It certainly bothers me.

ZanneMarie--

Twenty four years ago, I applied for technical jobs, and was denied for each because I was a woman. Not because I didn't know what I was talking about, but they actually said because I was a woman. The jobs I applied to had been held by men, yet in the grunt positions that constituted probably 90% of the work, it was nearly 100% women (about 60 women in one plant, and one man, who ironically had a sex change operation a decade later).

Oh, the lawsuit I could've had!

THAT said, I am finding the older I get, the less that is a problem. I went back to school, and originally entered an engineering program, which originally was an all male domain. I was happy to see it was nearly half women, and extremely relieved to see older students in the program as well. The group that seemed to have the greatest difficulty with the courses, especially the mathematics, were the younger guys, and yet they had no problem asking me or another woman for help with the problems.

I checked the program out at University of Washington, and found they were approaching similar ratios.

And let's face it--in the competitive climate of some industries, you don't slice your nose off to spite your face if you want the best applicants, and not hiring highly qualified women means ignoring some of the best talent.

And that said, there are those backward company cultures that have negative vibes of one kind or another, and it really behooves both men and women to research the companies they are interested in applying to.

There are sexist bigots out there, and all that means is what it mean--there are jerks in the world.

It's all in how you handle it. Actually, that's the only thing one controls.

Metta, Rjaye.

You are absolutely right. That is all we control.