Do you enjoy being a parent?

Post Reply New Topic

*Giggle* Yes, very good point.

What DW_a_mom said. I was just about to tell you you don't have to decide in the middle of the night, but she beat me to it and said it much better

Every question does not have a yes or no answer. There is a huge difference between a 2-year old and a 4-year old child. You'll find that kids who don't go to some kind of daycare may find it hard to find someone to play with.

I talked to someone who grew up in a traditional farming community. She said: "We were raised by our grandmothers. Our parents worked on the land." Women have always worked, they just haven't gotten recognition for it. It's really only from the fifties that women have been able to devote themselves to mothering.

Ok, nuff said. I know I can drive myself crazy looking for the correct answer when there isn't any. The question is really what you want and what your gf wants. What will happen if you don't decide tonight?

Maybe. I really do think we need to spend more time together but she's absolutely certain she wants kids. That means if I haven't decided yet it makes me feel like a jerk for leading her on. That makes me feel like, while I can compromise with her on other matters, whether or not I stay with her must be based on whether or not I want kids, a decision I can't quite answer.

As for childcare costs, if GF gets a job (not likely in this economy), I might be able to get away with having my mother look after the kids. Still GF is kind and loving and happy 99% of the time but she sees the world through rose coloured glasses. The fact that she recently tried to make money on a pyramid scam makes me think she's not very good with money.

She doesn't seem to get that it can take a long time for someone with no qualifications to find a job. She doesn't seem to get that supporting her and an infant child on nothing but my entry-level salary is actually asking quite a lot from me.

I eventually gave my now-husband an ultimatum on marriage: the term of our lease. (I did allow for a long engagement, I just wanted a commitment and at the time he was a commitment-phobe)

I think you aren't leading your GF on if you say you need X time to think about it and also you have Y specific concerns that need to be addressed before you're willing to have kids. If she decides her biological clock is more important, then that's where you are - if not, I think everybody will benefit (including, potentially, your kids) from thinking this through carefully.

Maybe. The trouble is she's against contraceptives for reasons I don't fully understand. She claims a condom would lessen her enjoyment of sex.

I was going to say I wanted 5 years to save up. That's an excuse. I don't save. I want 5 years to spend money on myself, to buy things. But in 5 years the things I bought will be out of date. If I buy things I want, I'll want other things.

5 years, admittedly, is kind of a long time to wait for a decision. Not to wait for the kid, but to wait for the decision to have one or not. (One of the reasons I gave my husband an ultimatum in the first place was that a couple of friends of ours who had been living together for 7 years broke up: that was incredibly awful to watch and so much worse than divorce, because they were completely without the supportive infrastructure divorce provides. It was the two of them, the apartment they bought together, and a moving truck. Ugh.) I would separate the two: in X time, with X criterion, I will know how I feel about parenthood...but I still want to wait until X if I do decide to be a parent.

There are alternatives to condoms, if you are monogamous and don't have to worry about anything but pregnancy. There are all kinds of hormonal treatments beyond the pill (though if your GF says she can't take those, she's probably telling the truth; they aren't for everyone.) There are other barrier methods like diaphragms and sponges - which are less effective than condoms, but could be used in tandem with a rhythm style method.

Ultimately, if she really wants to have sex without worrying about it, you could bank your sperm and get a vasectomy. Not a bad idea to have young sperm saved up so you can use it when YOU are mature but your sperm may be old. That also makes baby-making (after the first few months, be aware) entirely and completely a choice for you and your potential co-parent.

I wouldn't do anything without a long discussion, but a frank discussion of exactly what your plans are. The real key to parenthood is the ability to work as an equal team to make decisions - consider this a test of that ability.

As long as you are being honest with her and telling her you don't know how you feel about kids, I don't think I would say you are leading her on. You don't become a jerk until the moment you have made a "no" decision for certain and fail to tell her about it.

For me, and I can only speak for myself, as long as I was afraid of the impact that having kids would have on my life (for me, the ability to do what I wanted when I wanted, to spend my money on what I wanted to spend it on, and to be able to spend the weekends hanging out with my friends), I was not ready to have kids. But there came a point in time when those things didn't matter to me anymore. When I was your age, those things did matter to me. A few years later, not so much, and a few years after that, not at all.

What would happen if you decided, right now, that your answer to the question "Do you want kids?" is simply "I don't know." That is a perfectly acceptable answer to an incredibly complex question. If we took your girlfriend out of the equation, there would be no reason for you to decide right now. Even with your girlfriend in the equation, I don't think you have to decide right now. I feel like either she needs to be comfortable with your "I don't know answer" for now, or she needs to decide what her priorities are. If you are not ready to make the decision, you can't force yourself to make it in good faith. For me, it was never really even a "decision" the way you are trying to do it right now. I just lost my "opposition" to the idea, so all that was left was the idea and I was at peace with it.

I think it is also permissible to have your decision be "not right now," with the understanding you are able to change it when/if you lose your opposition to the idea. "Not right now" and "no" are not the same answer, though they have the same impact on the current moment in time.

If you are agonizing this much over this decision, then, IMO, you are not at the right place in your life to make it.

It was the same for us.



Second that. Just to add another voice, really.

I told her I wasn't sure about it and she didn't mind at all. She said I shouldn't worry about it now and that I should focus on my studies. She was nice and understanding about it but I worry that she might eventually expect a certain outcome.Waiting a few years would be nice. In five years I might be less desirous to buy stuff for myself (I'd like to say I'd have some savings but I probably would've spent it all, but I definitely plan to pay off my credit card in the next year). In five years she might have gotten a job and held it for a while (she's better at saving).

But she doesn't want to wait that long. I suggested we wait 'till she's 30, she sounded a bit doubtful about this and said 30 is too old for her to carry a child. Really? I've known women older than that who carried children.

She said she would wait five years if I really wanted... on one condition. So long as I remained celibate for five years. What? She started by saying celibacy is the only way to delay conception. I reminded her of several forms of contraception and she said none of them were acceptable.

I asked her if it was because her church taught that they were forbidden. She said it had nothing to do with her church. I'm not sure if she's being truthful with me. I suspect she's just trying to think of another explanation because she knows I don't like taking orders from churches.

She said the pill would ruin her body (I can't confirm or deny this, I have no idea what the side effects of the pill are). She said condoms would reduce her sensation during sex (funny, it's usually the guy who says that). I think that maybe condoms reduce sexual sensation a bit but celibacy does far more to reduce sexual sensation. It's the all or nothing approach. I've been guilty of perfectionism myself so I know how destructive it can be.

Now as I said before, I'm a bit uneasy about having kids but I would be much, much more comfortable with it if I could control when it happened. Most of the married couples I know seemed to be quite happy to intentionally wait 5 or 7 years before trying for a baby. I know couples who've been together for a years and they don't mind that they haven't had a kid yet, probably haven't started trying yet. Some of the protestants I know are regular users of the pill.

But GF wants to start trying for a baby on our wedding night and this makes me feel more uncomfortable about fatherhood than I otherwise would. I want to feel like I'm in control of my own life. Lack of control makes me feel more uncomfortable.

The trouble is, I know if I tell her I want to delay conception for a few years, I know she'll tell me she knows a method of contraception that's 100% reliable. Celibacy. I told her I didn't like that and she said she felt like I only want her for sex (far from true). I tried to explain that sex is a component of any healthy marriage. I don't want to sound like a sex fiend but I don't think it's normal or healthy for a young married couple to be celibate for five years. Who ever heard of a married virgin?

I understand her feeling like she does not want to wait a long time but, to me, she sounds manipulative. I think someone earlier suggested couple's counseling. I think a third party trained in counseling couples would be valuable. I know you want to do what's best for you, your GF and possible offspring. I think professional help could mean the difference between a solid decision and one that is made under pressure.

FWIW, the pill reallly does do stuff to your body: I can't tolerate it at all (gives me vomiting migraines) and in a best-case it makes you gain water weight and puts you at risk for blood clots. That said, there was a recent study that said the "loss of sensation" with condoms is a myth (of course YMMV) http://www.blisstree.com/2013/01/23/sex ... less-good/ She may be having a mild allergic reaction - there are silicon condoms out there that are hypo-allergenic.

Given that we are only hearing the part of the conversation that you report, it does sound a little bit like she's trying to trade her preferred timeline for sex and then find a rationalization for it, doesn't it? That seems like an important thing to talk about: you do NOT want to have children with someone who you can't trust. I'm not saying she isn't trustworthy (lots of people say lots of things when they are cornered without thinking them through) but you may want to talk about what kind of parents you will make if she can't be direct when you disagree.

Why are you in this relationship? I recognize you're using this thread as a sounding board and we're getting a very skewed picture of it - but I'm hearing you say you want to go out and have fun and be independent and you report that GF wants to settle down and start a family right away, and the two of you are pushing back at each other instead of cooperating and finding a solution that is acceptable to both of you.

What things are we missing that make this dichotomy make sense?

What things are you missing? I don't know. Am I giving you a skewed picture? Of course I am. We all have our cognitive biases. Are you only getting my side of the story? Of course you are. I can't tell you what's in her head. I can only tell you what's in my head. I can only tell you my inevitably biased account of what I thought she said.

OK so you've confirmed that the pill is harmful. That's good. It's good that I know that now. A second opinion is helpful.

I'm not saying she's intentionally lying to be but we all have our own biases. One of the biggest ones is that we don't like to admit we were wrong. Most of us won't even admit it to ourselves. If we have a reason for holding an opinion and that reason is taken away, we often scramble for a new one.

Her reasons for disliking condoms? I get the impression that she's trying to justify it. She knows that I'm not religious so she tries to think of a secular explanation. I'd still prefer if she told me the real reason she doesn't like condoms. I don't want to step on her beliefs.

One of the reasons she gave me is that the condom might break, possibly leading to conception. While there's a chance that the condom would break, while there's a small chance of conception with a condom, the chances would still have to be lower compared with unprotected sex, which is her proposed alternative.

The church also likes to come up with secular justifications for their religious rules. It sounds like she's been listening to one of those church sex talks where they say that condoms break 99% of the time or something. I don't want to tell people what to believe but I'd prefer it if the church just said "we don't use condoms because God forbids them" rather than trying to backpedal and think of some secular reason. I respect religion so they don't need to justify themselves. That doesn't stop them from trying.

Anyway, I'm a bit bothered how she'll say stuff like, we should be able to talk about anything and that I can ask her any question and yet when I ask her she'll tell me to ask her later or say that she wants to go to bed early or something similar. A few times when I brought up condoms or other subjects pertaining to sex, she said I only think that because I watch too much porn.

In other words she says I only think that using condoms is acceptable because I got the idea from porn. She's implying that only porn addicts use condoms. I didn't get the idea from porn, their use was demonstrated to me in elementary school. I'm pretty sure that normal people use condoms, they're not only for sex fiends and porn addicts.

Maybe her church said that condoms are only used by sex fiends and that people only want to use condoms because pornos tell them too. Any time I suggest some type of variation on vanilla sex, she says I only thought of that because I watch porn. I won't go into detail because this isn't the right board for that but suffice to say, I'm pretty sure there are couples that have nonstandard sex without getting the idea from porn (also none of it was kinky or unusual, it was stuff that most people would have tried).

I want to respect her religion but I don't feel like her church respects me. It's like they tell their parishioners that the reason there's so much non-missionary position sex in the world is because of porn and that anyone who wants to do anything else is a porn addicted sex fiend.

They apply these rules not only to their own parishioner but also to everyone else in the world. Why do they think everyone else in the world has to obey their rules. I looked up her church on Wikipedia and it said its their belief that their denomination is the only true church (probably explains why they think their rules apply to everyone in the world instead of just their own parishioners).

OK, in reading this I realize we may be missing some important information - what might actually be happening is that your GF is has decided she does not want/like sex either temporarily or permanently and is struggling with a way to articuate it - our culture shames women who admit they just don't want/like sex. If you're pushing her for a "reason" why she doesn't want sex, she may not have one, and "I don't want to" or "I don't feel like it" is reason enough - she may be trying to justify because she can't figure out what else to say.

In other words, she may be in the same place about sex (especially non-vanilla sex) that you are about parenthood.

If she's worried about conception, you can double-up on birth control - see http://www.scarleteen.com/article/sexua ... ol_with_a_

I reccommend the above site for more information on how sex, sexual politics and relationships work.

You may be right. At one point she said she doesn't love sex. Later I asked her if she's an asexual and she said she's not. She said she wants me.

You're right that our culture shames women who say they don't like sex and so does her church. They have a lot of rules about sex and one of them is a wife must be "self-giving" during sex and that no reasonable request may be refused.

To you and I these rules seem barbarous but she was raised in this culture so she may be too ashamed to admit it. If she's asexual I would find it much less confusing if she just told me.

There is also a LOT of room between "I don't like to feel pressured, I want to be the person who initiates sex, I only like sex certain ways, and I don't want it often" or some combination and asexual.

Seriously, take a look around the Scarleteen site, maybe along with your GF. It may give you language to make this relationship more clear.

I talked to her a bit more today. She said she didn't want to wait until marriage. Recently she celebrated her 25th birthday and it made her feel old. She said she wants to have a baby as soon as possible. She's obsessed with it. That made me feel kind of anxious.

I spent some time at work stuck in a cognitive feedback loop thinking about how I should emphasis how I wanted to tell her I want to wait a years, but that might lead to less sex (and she's irresistibly attractive) but I should wait 5 years to save money but I'll probably spend it all on video games so in 5 years I'll have no savings, therefor it makes no financial difference if we have a kid now but yesterday I watched a Youtube about the importance of longterm planning and delayed gratification instead of just living for pleasure in the moment and how come all of my friends who've gotten married have waited several years before having kids but I have to do it straight away and maybe I don't want to have kids anyway but if I don't I have to leave her because it would be immoral for me to lead her on when that's what she wants in life but I really want to be with her but maybe I can delay conception through celibacy but I'm really attracted to her and if she's so obsessed with babies maybe that at least means she'll be a devoted mother and do most of the work for me.

I kept thinking I should just talk to her about it instead of asking strangers on the internet. We started talking about it (through text). She was understanding. She said not to worry about it. Then I panicked and said we should get to know each other more before we discuss it further (I was worried I might put her off sex). She agreed to this. I want to get to know her better but I worry that would be leading her on. She says I worry too much.

Also I've worked out the reason she doesn't like condoms. It's not because of her church. It's because she wants to have a baby as soon as possible and she views anything that keeps her from her goal as evil. Her obsession with having a baby as soon as possible is making me really anxious. I'm worried I'll never have any disposable income again.

Yes. I think using text/email may actually make this easier. Also, not a bad idea to get professional counseling because having kids is something you should get professional support about if you aren't on the same page - it is a very, very big deal.

Make sure your brain is doing your thinking for you and not your lack of impulse control/short-term thinking. Nobody (and nothing) is actually irresistibly attractive - you can resist just fine, and therefore make a rational decision.

If you and this girl can't get on the same page on this issue (the issue being a combination of parenthood in the near future and access to sex,) this is not the relationship for you, nor is it the relationship for her. Parenthood is forever no matter what...relationships, not always.