Scientists debunk themselves into a corner Volume 2

Post Reply New Topic

Yeah I'm like Prof Avi Loeb, dig for evidence first and have something to show before mentioning the word alien.

He's not very impressed by UFO sightings, is he?

^^^ I think he's saying the images are generally quite grainy so he's suggesting better using NASA technology to pick up objects in space. It's noteworthy the radar operators on USS Nimitz detected the tic tac UAPs moving from just inside the earth's orbit all the way to the ocean in a matter of seconds.

NASA need to come on board and divulge what all these videos are of objects passing the space shuttle in orbit. Not all of them are ice crystals as they claim.

A lot of cases reported are from the military are unresolved

He said that the cameras are much better today but the images are not improving.

Using NASA technology to pick up objects in space? I don't know how you get that at all.

It's an attempt at sanewashing.

Yeah. He was definitely putting words into Avi Loeb's mouth to make it look like he thinks we are being visited by aliens when he was really saying that the evidence isn't there at all.

to be fair, Avi Loeb is primarily interested in evidence that materials from other interstellar civilisations are capable of drifting into our solar system which is why he's looking currently for what he thinks is alien debri at the bottom of the Indian ocean.

He's avoided being directly drawn into debate about aliens visiting earth.

My point is that he's trying to demonstrate a) aliens exist and b) the debri from their civilisations can travel through space and c) he's looking for material that confirms his theory.

In the case of tic tacs and drone like objects, until somebody shows evidence who/where these we built and what their purpose is, all bets are on the table.

From https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2515-5172/ad03f9

To the best of my knowledge, all meteorites are extra-terrestrial in origin and made up of the remnants of previous stars and of supernovas. It should not be at all surprising if material ejected or created by various processes such as supernovas and stellar collisions from elsewhere in the universe could reach the Earth as meteorites. As far as I can see, the only way to distinguish these from the material left over from the creation of the solar system would be by their measured trajectories.

We shouldn't expect to find evidence of alien intelligence in them, though. Even if some of the previous generation of stars from which the Earth had planets that were occupied by intelligent life, their debris would be an extremely tiny fraction of the debris from the previous stars and planets even if it all survived a supernova that flung it out in space, only a very tiny fraction of that debris would be likely to reach Earth.

Also, there is a hypothesis that it would take at least a third generation of stars before intelligent life would even be possible. Think about it -- the first generation of stars could hardly have had planets -- elements heavier than lithium would need to have been created by processes such as stellar nucleosynthesis, supernova nucleosynthesis, or the collision of heavy stars -- not even carbon existed back then. So intelligent life would have to come later.

As I understand it, the second generation of stars did not yet have a great abundance of elements heavier than lithium available when they formed and would, by necessity, be relatively small stars and a great many probably remain to this day. The material available to form their planets was very limited.

So figure that it would need a third or later generation star.

Another possibility for debris from extra terrestrial civilizations would be if they sent out probes such as a very limited number of our probes. After however many million years, it wouldn't be surprising if they came within one or two light years of another star, but the chance of reaching another civilization would be vanishingly small.

Or perhaps there was a collision between a planet with intelligent life and a very large asteroid that knocked part of the planet away. The portion of the debris that would be of the civilization would be tiny. It would also be likely to be unable to reach escape velocity to escape its star -- look at our moon as an example.

So while material from outside our solar system could reach us, the presence of debris from an alien civilization would be vanishingly small.

^^^ this has been dealt with in another thread, but NASA measured the speed of the object that landed of the coast off New Guinea was accelerating at a speed that was not typical of meteorites.

But hardly unheard of.

Anyway, it might very well have come from outside the solar system. I'm not saying that it didn't. Our planets and meteors consist of matter that was created outside of our solar system.

Think about it. The matter in the hair on your chin originated from either inside a star or created by a supernova. We are made from stellar materials.

Here is something you might enjoy. A few thousand tons of tiny meteorites strike the Earth every year and a great many of them are affected by magnets. Since they are found pretty much everywhere, some people collect these by using a strong rare earth magnet wrapped in plastic (a baggie would do well) and running along the ground or on rooftops to collect them. After doing so, just fold the plastic over and pull away from the magnet. Even though I do have a good quality rare earth magnet, I have never tried this, but some who have says it can be interesting to look at them through a microscope. I'm not sure how you would tell the difference between these tiny meteorites and other materials you find.

If you don't use the plastic baggie or something, you'll probably never be able get them off of the magnet.

I think Deepak Chopra who once said every atom in your body is replaced every 12 months with star dust, so yes, including the hair on our chin.

I think the UAP crowd are in for a hard slog. the governments and scientific bodies aren't making it easy for them.

I'd take anything he says with a big grain of salt.

You might have a point, there. If they were to start encouraging kids to eat lead paint and everyone to smoke dope, then it likely would make it easier for them.

I think you mean tin foil hats
Most of us are pretty ordinary folk, we collect a growing body of data. It's either
a) the greatest conspiracy in the history of the world involving psyops
b) a cabal of mad scientists working for some type of shadow government
c) aliens and/or interdimensional beings and/or us from the future

For scientist/sceptics who find themselves in a corner - they would now say a), the CIA have been feeding conspiracies for years and this one was to distract a gullible population from their secret black programs - throw in psyops to get the public to chase phantoms and not ask questions where trillions of dollars go missing.

Nothing but conspiracy theories.

My view of conspiracy theorists is that they tend to be people who want to be authoritative about issues without having to actually deal with reality. They want and demand easy answers and eschew the hard work of finding the real answers, especially when the real answers show that their conspiracy theories to be garbage.