Bible banned from Texas schools for being sexually explicit

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Honey69
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29 Jun 2025, 5:38 pm

https://faculty.mtsac.edu/jmcfaul/Lette ... 0Earth.pdf

Mark Twain wrote:

Protestant parents still keep the Bible
handy in the house, so that the children can study it, and one of the first things the little
boys and girls learn is to be righteous and holy and not piss against the wall. They study
those passages more than they study any others, except those which incite to
masturbation. Those they hunt out and study in private. No Protestant child exists who
does not masturbate. That art is the earliest accomplishment his religion confers upon him. Also the earliest her religion confers upon her.

The Bible has this advantage over all other books that teach refinement and
good manners: that it goes to the child. It goes to the mind at its most impressible and
receptive age -- the others have to wait.


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Honey69
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29 Jun 2025, 5:40 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Additionally, it's essentially the but I turned out fine argument, which is questionable.


Did Kokopelli not turn out fine? He seems okay to me.


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kokopelli
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29 Jun 2025, 5:50 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Honey69 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

You're relying on moving goalposts, likely because you lack a serious argument.


What is our goalpost?


The initial argument was over whether or not the sexual content of the bible is appropriate for children.

kokopelli has pivoted towards his life on the farm, as though that's relevant.

Additionally, it's essentially the but I turned out fine argument, which is questionable.


What is relevant is that the language in the Bible may not be what you expect, but it is hardly all that explicit. For children, there are some vague references that most kids would find puzzling. It is not going to draw any prurient interest. Nobody who is not very seriously disturbed is going to read it and become sexually stimulated and seeking some sort of sexual gratification.



TwilightPrincess
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29 Jun 2025, 5:56 pm

Whether parents choose to have it in the home or not, it’s still not appropriate for school. Many passages in the Bible are not appropriate for children. Some parts are sexually explicit; others condone or even encourage various forms of violence, including sexual violence, all in the name of God. Religious texts should be kept out of schools for that reason. There are too many ways that kids could be harmed by them. It would be cool if there could be a class that taught how to read the Bible, but I don’t foresee that happening in the US any time soon.



colliegrace
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29 Jun 2025, 6:00 pm

I'm Christian as f**k and Catholic as f**k, but I can't help but be amused by this.

No, I am not in favor of censoring LGBTQ and queer books in schools. Bible is definitely more sexually explicit than are LGBTQ books for kids... I recall in "family altar" as a kid, accidentally reading the passage in Deuteronomy that described how much genital touching there needed to be before it was considered sex. (Or something. I actually forget what the point of that passage was, other than it was actually pretty explicit.)


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29 Jun 2025, 6:06 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Whether parents choose to have it in the home or not, it’s still not appropriate for school. Many passages in the Bible are not appropriate for children. Some parts are sexually explicit; others condone or even encourage various forms of violence, including sexual violence, all in the name of God. Religious texts should be kept out of schools for that reason. There are too many ways that kids could be harmed by them. It would be cool if there could be a class that taught how to read the Bible, but I don’t foresee that happening in the US any time soon.


There are church schools and many appear to include Bible classes.



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29 Jun 2025, 6:09 pm

Such “Bible classes” are about indoctrination NOT education.



kokopelli
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29 Jun 2025, 6:12 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Such “Bible classes” are about indoctrination NOT education.


That would depend on the school and on the teacher.



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29 Jun 2025, 6:20 pm

kokopelli wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Such “Bible classes” are about indoctrination NOT education.


That would depend on the school and on the teacher.
If it is a Bible class in a parochial school, then its primary purpose is indoctrination. Parochial schools are not good places to learn about the Bible. Even with a good teacher, the school is typically striving to push a specific agenda.



colliegrace
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29 Jun 2025, 6:21 pm

I do think there's poor religious education versus good religious education.

If I had my druthers, religious education insofar as the goal is to teach children how to practice a religion, would dive into academic study and the why's of why said religion teaches what it does. Or at least equip kids who wish to learn on how to do so.

I was homeschooled, and the curriculum we used in highschool, I feel had a lot of good points in terms of studying Christianity and pointers on how to delve deeper into that. (An assload of reading various books was involved, including books on logical thinking and fallacies to avoid.)

Also if I had my druthers, no religion whatsoever in a public school. Keep it to private schools or at home.

Homeschooling is... not for everyone, but can be a good option. I scored well on standardized testing from the state, and got an honors scoring in two subjects when I graduated. (I'm convinced homeschooling was the best thing for my undiagnosed AuDHD, honestly. When I was in traditional schooling, I had a lot of issues and teachers told my mom I needed "extra attention".)


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29 Jun 2025, 6:30 pm

colliegrace wrote:
I do think there's poor religious education versus good religious education.

If I had my druthers, religious education insofar as the goal is to teach children how to practice a religion, would dive into academic study and the why's of why said religion teaches what it does. Or at least equip kids who wish to learn on how to do so.

I was homeschooled, and the curriculum we used in highschool, I feel had a lot of good points in terms of studying Christianity and pointers on how to delve deeper into that. (An assload of reading various books was involved, including books on logical thinking and fallacies to avoid.)

Also if I had my druthers, no religion whatsoever in a public school. Keep it to private schools or at home.

Homeschooling is... not for everyone, but can be a good option. I scored well on standardized testing from the state, and got an honors scoring in two subjects when I graduated. (I'm convinced homeschooling was the best thing for my undiagnosed AuDHD, honestly. When I was in traditional schooling, I had a lot of issues and teachers told my mom I needed "extra attention".)


I used to have a friend in grad school who was very much in favor of home schooling. He argued that public schools are more concerned with crowd control, but that's a problem that is pretty much non-existent in home schooling. He also had examples (including full names) of people who were home schooled being admitted to top colleges.

One problem with home schooling is math. The friend of mine (we were both in the Math Department of a major university) volunteered his free time to tutor a number of kids being home schooled in math.

Some years later, a cousin of mine was home schooling his kids. Those kids were very well adjusted and were anything but snotty brats. However, it was clear that their math background was poor.

My impression was that their parents often just handed them a book for a guided self study and didn't study the books themselves in order to try to answer questions intelligently.



colliegrace
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29 Jun 2025, 6:42 pm

kokopelli wrote:
My impression was that their parents often just handed them a book for a guided self study and didn't study the books themselves in order to try to answer questions intelligently.

I really think it's gonna depend on what you use to teach math, and how.

I had major major issues with math, but I also have a learning disability in the math area. (I had trouble with math even in traditional schooling, and was sent back an entire grade over it. But full disclosure, I did go to a private school. Also full disclosure, my father went to public schooling in his day and was diagnosed with dyscalculia at a young age... so I have no doubt I got that from him.)

Something homeschoolers have these days, that I did not in my day, was "co-op", where you go to study with a bunch of other homeschooled kids in a class like setting.


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29 Jun 2025, 6:49 pm

I homeschooled, too. I “graduated” high school with just a basic arithmetic knowledge of math. I bought some books before taking placement tests for college, including Algebra 1 and 2 for Dummies. I ended up doing quite well and even ended up tutoring math in college. It was hard getting to that point, though. I had to do a lot of cramming before and during college to get to where I needed to be. Science was a problem as well. Sometimes I wonder if I would’ve went into a science-related field if my background would’ve been more conducive for it.



colliegrace
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29 Jun 2025, 6:52 pm

I guess my thing is, as a religious person, if I believe God exists and I follow an organized religion around it, and I believe that following this religion is critically important... yeah, duh, I'm going to teach my kids to follow my religion.

But I'm also going to equip them to study and learn and delve deeper for themselves, or try to. (Hypothetically speaking... I'm aroace. I'm not interested in marriage, and I don't want children.) If they leave the faith once they have the capacity to think for themselves, that's entirely their choice and one I'd respect.


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29 Jun 2025, 6:57 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I homeschooled, too. I “graduated” high school with just a basic arithmetic knowledge of math. I bought some books before taking placement tests for college, including Algebra 1 and 2 for Dummies. I ended up doing quite well and even ended up tutoring math in college. It was hard getting to that point, though. I had to do a lot of cramming before and during college to get to where I needed to be. Science was a problem as well. Sometimes I wonder if I would’ve went into a science-related field if my background would’ve been more conducive for it.

Curious what curriculum was used.

Most of my homeschooled education was A Beka, which is a super duper religious curriculum. I burnt out very badly in junior high. My mom let me "take a break" and then going back into it we used on online curriculum based off "the Charlotte Mason method", which included a ton of literature.

I would say that homeschooling, at least what was used in my homeschooling, focused poorly on science and math as well.


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29 Jun 2025, 7:15 pm

I went to public school in elementary school except in 4th grade. I think we mostly got cheap books out of a homeschool catalogue that year. I remember an entertaining math workbook that had a Bible verse on every page and idiotic math problems involving Jesus and his disciples.

In middle school, my parents borrowed books from the public school, and I tried to teach myself out of those. My mom was into the unschooling method of homeschooling…sort of. No instruction from my parents or anyone else went on. I spent most of those years reading Dickens and other Victorian novels. Well, I played video games and roamed the woods, too. :P

In high school, I did the American School program. At the time, it was a correspondence school that worked solely through the mail. They sent me books and tests. I did the readings, took the tests, which were entirely open-book, mailed them in, and they graded them. That was it. Their algebra book was so bad I decided that I couldn’t teach myself algebra. I even thought that I was bad at math - a notion that was reinforced by my family - and decided to switch to basic math. It turns out I am good at math. I found that out in college. I just needed to be taught or, at least, to have decent books.