Should we pull support from Israel?

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There is still time !

zionists are the new nazis. but their genocide is the arabian people of palestine and lebanon instead.

the normal people of israel are welcome...but the zionists can go die.

Trouble is, it's the US through both church and state that are backing the Zionists, and that's the problem.

which is why lies must be broken and the truth must be passed on and pushed forward to the spotlight.

I agree with skafather84.

Israel is the construct of a racist sectarian movement borne in the later years of the 19th century - the Zionist movement.
The international Zionist movement was set up from the very start with the idea of the creation of an exclusively Jewish state in what was then known and acknowledged as the country of Palestine.

Right from the beginning they exhibited an exclusive sectarian attitude towards not only non Jews, but to non orthodox Jews! When the Germans went through Hungry and Romania the SS and Gestapo were aided in the rounding up of merely ethnic or non orthodox Jews by the Zionists in exchange for safe passage and the opportunity to keep some of their wealth.

It seemed Herr Hitler respected their own shared ambition of maintaining ethnic purity and saw the voluntary exodus [pardon the pun] as convenient as well as politically expedient as it led to problems in what was the then British territory of Palestine.
Since 1948 the Zionists in Israel [note I say Zionists not Jews as Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews had for the most part enjoyed a fairly harmonious co-existence until the mid thirties] have waged a genocidal war to steal the lands of the Palestinian Arabs. Ariel Sharon himself is on the record in Hebrew language papers stating that the solution to the 'Palestinian problem' was 'they will either all leave, or they will be killed' [I paraphrase] Herr Hitler himself made almost the exact same statement in relation to European Jews throughout his time as leader of Germany and the terror tactics used to scare people away are identical.

Israel is little more than a land grab by yet more Europeans of lands they have no right to, the majority of Israeli citizens seem to behave with the arrogance and poor logic of most any racists you care to make a comparison with. The state of Israel uses compulsory involvement in the crimes of the state by it's young in order to maintain it's sense of unity as the ethnic tensions within Israel threaten to tear it apart. The Palestinian people are little more than some convenient 'other' used to unite a group of people who share little but a religion, a religion that claims it's members are the only 'true' children of God - inferring in this single stance that all others are expendable.

Should the US withdraw support for the state of Israel? - most certainly, although given that US corporate involvement with the Nazi regime continued right until the defeat of Germany at the end of WWII I hold out little hope that US support for the new Nazi's will ever really end. The presence of Israel suits US corporate agendas, it destabilises the region, it creates a climate of 'justifiable' [sic] violence on the part of all parties and it embeds hatreds that will take ten times longer to alleviate than it took to instill, there is no good to come of this situation, peace j

What are the numbers and refrence for this?

i'm interested in this too....

Me three. In my research all I heard was that the Zionists sometimes discriminated against the non orthodox Jews in Israel. I didn't see anything like that.

Cool, I will admit to not owning the source material.

I will look into finding out the name of the main text in reference to pre Israeli Zionism in South Eastern Europe[the Nazi related stuff].
From what I recall the chap who wrote it was an academic in California and the publishers a San Francisco operation.

A guy I used to know did a year at a University in California as some sort of exchange arrangement, he was a reasonably avid book collector and brought around a large stack of books and broadsheets he picked up.

Sorry, now I guess I look like a loon, I can get pissy about the situation there.
Where I grew up we had two Arab family's who were Catholic converts, one from Lebanon and one from Palestine, they were lovely people and they had terrible stories.

peace j

I wasnt directing my comments at you, and I thank you for defining it for me. I was simply using that definition to expand upon my original post. Sorry if you took offense.

(Edit due to isp acting up.)

"i just think that israel doesn't have the right to exist as a country. i think the people should be allowed to be evacuated to safety in europe or in the US and the rest should be left to fend for themselves.....and take away their nukes, too"

You said it. Im responding to that. If you didnt intend it to come off as Draconian, you should have phrased it less harshly.

Yes.

again, what you've said has nothing to do with what's going on today. you're drawing an illogical conclusion. i can't even beging to refute it because it has nothing to do with the discussion on israel.

they're killing thousands of people now. i can't reverse the genocides of the past...only complain about the ones occurring now.


and again...evacuate the israelis who want safety and a chance at life and leave the zionists to be obliterated.

And how exactly is me responding to this "evacuation" concept an illogical conclusion?

As of April 24 2007, the State of Israel's population stands at approximately 7,150,000. 5,415,000 are Jews (76 percent, nearly 40% of the Worlds Jews, 65 percent of whom were born in Israel.) while 1,425,000 (20 percent) are Arabs. 310,000 (4 percent) people were classified as “others."

Taking a random european country for size comparison.. Denmark has a population of 5,468,120 (July 2007 est.)

So, as I said earlier, you're suggesting the forced relocation of people equalling Denmarks population in number. Are you suggesting sharing them out amongst everyone, or giving them another land to live in? How are you thinking to move that many people? These people have been "forcibly relocated for their own safety" before. Do you really think they would step willingly en masse onto trains, planes and boats so they can be made to restart their lives all over again, in a foreign nation that probably doesnt want them anyway?

Any way you look at it, its not going to fly. Many will resist your attempts to move them, and I imagine it wouldnt be long before America had yet another stalwart enemy who despises you and all you stand for if you tried it. Assuming there is any truth to this Zionist conspiracy therory, do you think they are going to go down easily? You think they ARENT going to fight tooth and nail for every inch of that territory, whether youve shipped the general population out or not? You would destabilize the whole region, probably destabilize europe as well, get christ knows how many people "obliterated" and all for the sake of saving a few tax dollars?

Next solution...?

"forcibly relocated for their own safety"

Surely this is inconsistent with your statement that 65% are native born Israeli?
I don't contest your figures, just your stance.
Perhaps we could send them all back to the countries of their parents with their parents? or wait I've got a better idea, they could stop acting like racists/Nazi's towards the real natives and drop the high and mighty 'god's only children' BS and try getting along with people?
If all that matters is the right to live as 'good Jews' unmolested then surely they could do that in any country that isn't actively hindering that ambition, even Palestine? Perhaps part of the problem is that being a 'good Jew' necessitates behaving like some kind of racist/Nazi?

For the record could you explain when exactly they were forcibly relocated?
Most of the Jews who actually escaped Nazism did so because they fled while the going was good leaving their brethren and sistren to the fate of forced relocation to lovely spots like Auschwitz and Dachau, oh and the health camp at Birkenhau apparently did wonders for weight loss [sorry sick humour...].

During the '80's Jews in Ethiopia were being harassed by the Marxist regime that replaced the Emperor, when they tried to join their brethren in Israel as refugees they found that they were made particularly unwelcome because they were black even though they can lay claim to being one of the few continuously resident 'native' Jewish populations on Earth, how does that work? Does Yaweh love black Jews more than white ones?
peace? j

65% were born in Israel, but that still leaves A LOT of people who werent. Many of those will have been Holocaust survivors or Holocaust avoiders. I think its a side effect of using percentages that it makes things seem smaller. 35% of several million is STILL a huge number of people. Besides, that whole event is general knwoledge world wide, and I think anyone being told they are going to be shipped en masse from their homes to somewhere else, regardless of race, colour or creed, is going to recall that.

Thats exactly the forced relocation I was referring to.. the shipment of huge numbers of people from one place to another, involuntarily on their part, whilst being fed various lines of BS about where they were going, and why. Not just the camps, but the original ghettos. (I believe madagascar was even mentioned as a concept once.)

TBH my whole issue with this concerns me across the board. Too many people who are just trying to live day to day, and be happy in their lives, get f****d about because of some random decidsion made by a handful of people in high government. Racist, Zionist, supremacist, Nazi, muslim, christian, whatever. most of these people are simply that.. people.. with lives, families, children. they walk the dog, they worry about making the bills, they date, break up, get drunk (or not) and hang out with friends. Then some craphat in an office somewhere decides to cancel this or that funding, and declares these people no longer have a right to live where they are, and all sorts of s**t hits the fan. Sadly, but unsurprisingly, a lot of these decisions seem to be made by craphats in the American Government, about places that arent under their jurisdiction. After all, who gave America the right to decide where is or isnt real? I dont remember THAT treaty.

If there is a problem with Zionists, or the Upper government of Israel, then work with THEM, deal with THEM, whatever. Dont piss everybody else about instead. They have enough to deal with in their lives, without yet another ill-conceived states-driven "rescue mission."

Thinking on it.. by all means, cut funding them.. they'll only get it from some other sponsor instead. Russia seems hell bent on winding up the west these days, I'm sure they wouldnt mind handing over a few roubles, just to see the look on Bush's face. Then America wil have a whole new race/population who hates them. Maybe it would even unify the middle east. Depends who the arab word hates more. People from their neck of the woods with a religious difference, or the great western satan that keeps bombing the s**t out of them.