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Awesomelyglorious
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15 Apr 2008, 8:13 pm

slowmutant wrote:
What if the "naturalistic process" is the Designer? I propose that while God is not seperate from His creations, He is not limited by them, either. I propose that He is manifest in and by observable phenomena. What I do not mean to imply, however, is the new age notion of the individual being God's equal or God Himself.

A naturalistic process would not prove or even imply a supernatural entity.



slowmutant
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15 Apr 2008, 8:33 pm

No, maybe not. But only if you are absolutely determined to torpedo the idea of a supernatural entity. At this juncture I realize the impossibilty of influencing someone else's core beliefs. They can sway you to their way of thinking only if they are allowed into your mind & heart. This entire debate is pointless, useless as a crotchless chastity-belt and sillier than Mr. Bean. I hereby withdraw from the competition. Peace out.



Griff
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15 Apr 2008, 10:11 pm

slowmutant wrote:
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And no, I'm more Cluster A. Furthermore, don't call someone a sociopath or a narcissist if you don't even fully understand the clinical descriptions of the disorders.


I know what these words mean. Wouldn't use 'em if I didn't. And I wouldn't have used them to describe you if I didn't think the descriptions were apt. They are. But who's this Cluster A. Furthermore? Now that is unknown to me.
Again, don't call people by names you don't know the meaning of. The criteria for narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder are very specific. Going by my university education, man, NOT by Wikipedia, I go MAJORLY into Cluster A, not Cluster B.



Griff
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15 Apr 2008, 10:27 pm

Ragtime wrote:
In that case, I think "atheist" carries a Richard Dawkins connotation in their minds -- almost a militant anti-religionism --
Secular countries do tend to be more stable...hmm...

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because "atheist" technically means someone who is 100% sure there is no God
Not sure about that definition. I'm a Pyrrhonist, and my central dispute is with dogmatism.

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(which carries a connotation of pomposity, for who could possibly know there is no God??),
I am uncertain, but perhaps you should explore the idea further. Perhaps one can.

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rather than that person simply and somewhat passively not believing in God.
I'm rabidly pyrrhonist, actually. Religion is just incompatible with a person of my mentality.

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In other words, I think there's a miscommunication going on, at least in many cases. In other cases, sure, there are knee-jerk-reactionists in the Christian community, just like anywhere else. :?
Oh, you mean like the ones who ask me if I worship the devil? And then seem to be surprised that I don't believe in either? Hehehehe, some people can be pretty ignorant. Trust me: I've run into them on the buses in this city.



slowmutant
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15 Apr 2008, 10:33 pm

Do Clusters A and B signify the difference between anything noteworthy, or we splitting the nuclei of atoms here? IF you're neither narcissistic nor sociopathic, you seem to be intimately familiar with both conditions. For my own reference, what do these clusters mean? Admittedly I have a layman's understanding of each, but having exhaustive technical knowledge isn't always necessary.



Griff
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16 Apr 2008, 6:49 am

slowmutant wrote:
Do Clusters A and B signify the difference between anything noteworthy, or we splitting the nuclei of atoms here? IF you're neither narcissistic nor sociopathic, you seem to be intimately familiar with both conditions. For my own reference, what do these clusters mean? Admittedly I have a layman's understanding of each, but having exhaustive technical knowledge isn't always necessary.
Cluster A personality disorders are characterized by eccentric or odd behavior. They include paranoid personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder, and shizotypal personality disorder. All three are marked by a certain level of distrustfulness toward others. In the case of schizotypal personality disorder, this is offset by a type of extraversion that compels the sufferer to seek out alternative means of social interaction and self-expression, sometimes through cults but more classically through academic settings. Their attempts at social interaction may come across as perverse to others, though, and may often become disruptive. Furthermore, their trust issues may lead to attacks of paranoia, and this in turn may lead to intense emnities that are vastly out of proportion to whatever set it off. However, sufferers of this disorder often have altruistic natures and a very real sense of compassion and liking toward others. Their odd and eccentric behavior is not as much an expression of open-mindedness as it is a way to assure themselves that they are not coming under the control of social convention, and this is largely due to a paranoid pre-occupation with safeguarding their integrity, sense of self, or intellectual/emotional independence. In spite of their philosophically independent natures, though, they are also known for extreme loyalty toward those rare individuals who can earn their trust and devotion.

Cluster B personalities, such as narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder, are, in a way, quite the opposite. Although their behavior can also be disruptive and erratic, as with one who is schizotypal, this occurs for altogether different reasons. The underlying cause is completely different. Really, most of them are characterized by extreme emotional or material selfishness. They may be obsessed with being admired or respected by others, entirely without regard for whether they have done anything to warrent it. They are not stupid per se, but they are very difficult people to sympathize with on any level.