Freedom of Speech and Militant Atheism

Post Reply New Topic

He drove the moneychangers out of the temple. WP is not a temple. He chastised the crowd for wanting to stone a women found in adultry, a crowd not without sin. No one is being stoned here (I mean the good old fashioned death by stoning). He was innocent and he was killed. He could have called down the angels from heaven to save himself but he did not do that.

You appear to enjoy self-righteous argument. Did Christ do that?

Z

I don't enjoy self-righteous argument. I am righteous in Christ alone.

Should I not defend my faith? Should I not stand up and answer critics?

Here is an historic example:

Acts 17:15-33 KJV
{15} And they that conducted Paul brought him unto Athens: and receiving a commandment unto Silas and Timotheus for to come to him with all speed, they departed.
{16} Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
{17} Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
{18} Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
{19} And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
{20} For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
{21} (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
{22} Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
{23} For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
{24} God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
{25} Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
{26} And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
{27} That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
{28} For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
{29} Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
{30} And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
{31} Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
{32} And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
{33} So Paul departed from among them.


Are we not to defend our faith? Here I defend the right to be open about our faith and question the legitimacy of some members being treated unequally. You, Quatermass, et al, try all this derision and holding me to a higher standard. Even claiming that it is Biblical.

1 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
{15} But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
{16} Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

I may have a short temper and can't take insults too well, but those are my own faults. Ever still, I will not be a doormat, but I will be:

2 Corinthians 10:5 KJV
{5} Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Not "shoving my religion down other's throats" but defending my faith from the "intellectual" attacks that it faces here and anywhere else I am called to.

Last edited by iamnotaparakeet on 22 May 2008, 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Are you defending Christian faith, or your hurt feelings? Perhaps you have picked an inappropriate platform on which to take a stand for the faith.

Z

I am defending the Christian Faith and the right to freedom of speech for all.

Freedom of speech doesn't necessarily equate to the freedom to talk crap, which is what all of you in the PPR forum do.

Amazing. In which biblical translation did you find the term "right to freedom of speech?" KJV? RSV? NIV? You are mixing Christian faith with American politics, something you have the right to do, but certainly something that is extra-biblical.

Z

Yes, does everything have to be Biblical? Freedom of speech is not anti-Biblical.

It is non qualitative.

Quatermass. I do not hold respect for your comments that have been made in this thread. If you are a mod you should be setting a role model.

Freedom of speech is not guaranteed in the Bible, but the Good Book does say that Christians will be persecuted for their faith. The "persecution" you are experiencing in this thread is not necessarily due to the precepts of Christianity, but because your actions are argumentative, demanding, unloving, angry, and self-entitled to the respect of those who don't believe as you do. Don't mix your actions, and the barbs they bring to you, with being persecuted for Christ-like faith. They aren't the same thing.

Z

That seems to be the case.

"Christlike" is one of the most misused and misunderstood terms there is. It's often thought of along the lines in a certain hymn which read "Gentle Jesus, meek and mild", which is a semi-biblical portrait at best. Jesus was loving, but that doesn't mean He was weak. He was humble, but He was anything but mild. Especially in his scathing accusations against everyone from the highest and most respected leaders in the land, to His own disciples, many times rebuking them for saying and doing seemingly normal things. Surely His disciples thought more than once, "Chill out, Jesus."

But there are actually two Christlikes in the Bible. Open the book of Revelation to see the Christ who returns to make war and to judge. Notice how the writer, John, makes specific mention of the contrast between Jesus' two attitude manifestations, explaining that Jesus came to Earth humble as a lamb, but on His return he will be as a lion and a mighty ruling King.

Meekness and humility were the role He had to play as Messiah during His first coming, because He had to be killed for our transgressions; He had to "fail" (by most human standards) -- that was His mission, and remaining alive would have failed that mission. But when He returns, He will be a fearsome sight. "Hair white as wool", with a voice sounding like "many waters", and a two-edged sword shooting out from his mouth, with "King of Kings, and Lord of Lords" inscribed on His thigh.

Jesus is God, and He is not meek or mild. We are to turn the other cheek, yes, but in every instance? That would be a definite mistake. Sometimes a show of fierce power is necessary to communicate with this corrupt world, such as in dealing with Iran's nuclear weapons / genocidal aspirations.

So, Christians, don't let anyone tell you that you're just supposed to shut up and take abuses because you're a Christian. Christianity is largely about speaking out the truth -- no matter who tries to silence you.

So, in other words, I have to act in a way that I am not, be an absolute paragon of virtue, etc?

You are in no position to judge me, especially considering I didn't volunteer to be a mod, but was conscripted. And I've had it up to here with you. Acting like you own the damn forum. You don't.

I do not want your respect, as I don't think I have ever got any from you anyway.

Are Christians called to be like the lamb Christ or the lion Christ? And who did Christ rebuke? Often it was religious hypocrites. He was called a friend of sinners, not of those who set themselves up as being the most righteous.

I actually agree that there is a lot of uncalled-for anti-Christian slinging going on in WP threads. Conversely, I've had a faithful Christian from England, on WP, use downright nasty epithets for my deceased, one-time Baptist minister father who died of AIDS. I didn't call a moderator on him, it wasn't worth it. There's a lot of all kinds of inappropriate slinging going on in WP threads. It seems to be the nature of those who identify with the Autism Spectrum to say things bluntly and to at times be mean-spirited.

But for iamnotaparakeet, a professing Christian, to demand some sort of equal treatment - on a non-religious internet forum - seems to me to be a reach. The approach doesn't seem to be effectively winning over very many souls.

If you don't like how people are responding it is simple enough to stop posting.

Z

I think this thread is getting out of hand here by now.

there is nothing wrong with that, but there will be always be idiots who think other wise. Christ as far as I know (I am not christian, but he was an interesting person)kept going throuigh all the crap he recieved, he dealt with it. Their are crazy atheists, there are crazy christians, you can find a crazy side to any argument. I myself hate the comments of richard dawkins and people alike, but I also do not like to hear evangelicals tell me I will go to hell for not reading the bible. Maybe you could star a a site or advocate for religious tolerance?