Can we know the truth?

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Can we know the truth?

Yes, the truth is simple to find	0%	[ 0 ]
Yes, with a lot of effort	22%	[ 4 ]
No, the truth is impossible to find due to limitations on data acquisition & processing	28%	[ 5 ]
No, the truth is impossible to find out because the data required is beyond knowing	22%	[ 4 ]
There is no truth	17%	[ 3 ]
What I think is the truth	11%	[ 2 ]

Total votes : 18

Sand
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06 Jun 2008, 9:44 am

I would prefer to throw it out. Whatever cuckoo thoughts might have possessed Keats, truth can at times be exceedingly ugly indeed.

Orwell
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06 Jun 2008, 9:44 am

Sand wrote:

I would prefer to throw it out. Whatever cuckoo thoughts might have possessed Keats, truth can at times be exceedingly ugly indeed.

:shrugs:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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slowmutant
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06 Jun 2008, 10:38 am

Sand wrote:

The insistence that humans are not machines is the last refuge of someone who claims some sort of hogwash about humans not being made of the same material stuff as everything else in the universe. It is a claim never substantiated in any reasonable form.

We are not "just" machines in the nihilistic sense; I will not concede that. The fact of our bodies resembling biochemical machines doesn't reduce us to coffee grinders or blenders or leaf-blowers. Actual faith in something beyond what you can see is a first setp which many refuse to take. You cannot reduce the soul. The human soul is irreducable and always has been.

skafather84
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06 Jun 2008, 10:48 am

never say never. i saw an article just yesterday that they've actually started on holodeck style technology of projecting fully rendered 3D images. that would have been a never for most people 10 years ago...hell, probably some people would probably still say it's a never unless they saw the article and the work being done.

http://www.physorg.com/news131807820.html

skafather84
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06 Jun 2008, 10:50 am

Sand wrote:

truth can at times be exceedingly ugly indeed.

so would you rather a lie if it were prettier?

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06 Jun 2008, 11:42 am

skafather84 wrote:

Sand wrote:

truth can at times be exceedingly ugly indeed.

so would you rather a lie if it were prettier?

I've read some research that says that humans are only able to remain sane through a healthy level of self-delusion. If we were to be realistic, most people would be clinically depressed for most, if not all, of their lives.

So yes, most people do prefer a lie if it is prettier.

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Sand
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06 Jun 2008, 11:52 am

I wonder why this is put on the level of what I prefer. If a doctor told me I was suffering from an incurable cancer, something that occurs every day to quite a few people, would you say I should get an aesthetic uplift from the truth of the information? When the doctor finally diagnosed my son as a permanent quadriplegic I did not find this truth inspiring. As impressed as I am by some of Keats' poetic capability I am not seduced by foolishness.

I put people who believe in souls on a level with people who believe in elves, fairies, vampires and the tooth fairy.

ouinon
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06 Jun 2008, 12:26 pm

The poll refers to one truth, "the truth". Whereas I believe that what is true at one moment might not be true some other time.

Not that it is unknowable, nor that is beyond our means, nor that there is no such thing, nor that it is easy or hard to find.

What is truth today may not be tomorrow. Truth is an experience.

Therefore I cannot vote.

:study:

Last edited by ouinon on 06 Jun 2008, 3:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.

skafather84
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06 Jun 2008, 12:27 pm

Sand wrote:

the truth is supposed to be inspiring? maybe for the religious nutjobs who think the truth is in some invisible parent figure but the truth to everyone else is just more impetus to work to make things better.

Confused-Fish
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06 Jun 2008, 2:19 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Confused-Fish wrote:

in short, no.

We are but biological creatures with biological perceptions, how could we ever know the truth?

Many have glimpsed the Truth. Many have known it. Our minds allow us to know the Truth. The brain is the biological tether of mind, and mind the antenna to Mind.

you underestimate the vastness and greatness of the truth, we may glimpse small pieces or shadows of the truth, but never the whole truth. the truth is infinite.

ouinon
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06 Jun 2008, 2:44 pm

I don't think "truth" and "knowledge" connect particularly. Truth is a value judgement; "this is true". A reaction.

Ah, maybe "The truth is what I think"/believe ... then

:study:

Last edited by ouinon on 07 Jun 2008, 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

slowmutant
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06 Jun 2008, 3:59 pm

Sand wrote:

Your son has no soul?!

Is he some sort of monster or vampire?

greenblue
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06 Jun 2008, 4:23 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Sand wrote:

Your son has no soul?!

Is he some sort of monster or vampire?

Soul is an abstract concept.

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slowmutant
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06 Jun 2008, 4:44 pm

Fnord wrote:

Pixel8 wrote:

I'm a Taoist and we believe ...

So like any other, you know that what a person believes can not be the The Truth, due to Maya, which is delusion. For The Truth is not belief, and belief is not The Truth, for doubt is implicit within the acknowledgement of belief. Regardless, your material senses are inadequate for perceiving the immaterial nature of The Truth, which presents as a mere glimpse of the reflection of the shadow of a cloud to your material senses.

Thus, while The Truth shall always remain constant, your vision of The Truth will last for only the most fleeting of moments, and your understanding of The Truth will be flawed.

The Truth remains The Truth, no matter what you choose to believe or disbelieve, and The Truth does not require belief to exist, for The Truth exists outside of belief. The Truth merely is, and this is the nature of The Truth.

May you find blessings in sorrow, and clarity in the storm.

The true Tao is the Tao which cannot be written.

Tao = I AM

Last edited by slowmutant on 06 Jun 2008, 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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06 Jun 2008, 4:46 pm

slowmutant wrote:

The true Tao is the Tao which cannot be written.

The Tao can be found in an empty hand.

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slowmutant
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06 Jun 2008, 4:50 pm

What was the riddle of the Burning Bush? The Tao, that's what.

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