The illegals getting in my country and the dispute about it

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I'm not mexican, but I'm latin, and I will tell you why I disagree with the idea of the wall and the shooting (apart from human rights and all that little but important stuff). It would be unefficient. Set the law, set the trap. People (specially latins) are very, very creative, and when you and you're family are starving, details like a wall or the possibility of death are unimportant. also, illegal immigrants generally take the jobs nobody wants to take. Fair trade with latin America and more efficient immigration laws (you you can migrate legally easier, paying taxes and all that) will more likely be the solution.

There is no doubt that there are about 12 million people that entered the United States illegally. However, before bashing immigrants, it is necessary to remember several facts.

1. Most U.S. citizens are either immigrated the the United States in their lifetime from countries where they did not want to stay any more, or are one or more generations removed from people who immigrated to the United States. Even European Americans who trace roots back to colonial times are, in a sense, descendants of immigrants.

2. There is no doubt that many people around the world hate the United States, but the fact that people are still trying to get in or are dreaming of getting in means that there is something about the United States that attracts them, and they feel they can't live in their country of birth any more.

There is no doubt that anti-immigrant sentiment has been a recurring theme in U.S. history. However, if U.S. citizens consider where they came from, I think anybody who wants to start anew and afresh in the United States should be welcomed with open arms. Of course, I do believe that new immigrants should be proficient in English before they become citizens, and I have problems with "bilingual education" in schools, considering that in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, immigrants were forced to learn and become proficient in English.

1. The day terrorism and drug dealers no longer exist, open borders might become a sane idea.

2. If I hear the line 'they do jobs Americans won't do' one more time, I will scream. The majority of the country knows how to get down and dirty, and all the legal citizens who perform a lot of those jobs shouldn't be ignored just because pro-illegal protesters want to find a way to legitimize making illegals legal. I actually heard some idiot on the news asking 'Who would cook your food? Who would do your lawns?' Myself, family, and friends do that by ourselves. If someone gives us a shovel, a spatula or even a pooper scooper, we would know what to do with them.

3. The border needs to be secured immediately. All this dilly dallying around by my government is ridiculous. Illegal immigrants swarming into our country unchecked is not only a terrorist disaster waiting to happen, but is also a great health risk. Illegals do not get health checks when they come into this country which is one of the reasons that diseases from the past such as leprosy are popping up.

4. If illegals from Mexico spent as much time and energy in their country protesting the way they do here, their country would probably be in a better state than our's. I specified Mexico because most of the illegals come from this country. That and Mexico has actual chance of fixing their country, but choosees to do nothing. I have more understanding for illegals from countries such as China(I think if illegals make it from there they're given asylum), because China's military knows how to put down a protest immediately and quite efficiently.

5. The hypocrasy of this situation is hilarious. People are protesting that we should keep illegals here because they're willing to work below minimum wages. What kind of person is willing to keep a large group of people working as indentured servants? Then Vincete Fox(I can't even describe on this website what I would like to do to him), has the nerve to tell us that we should have open borders. Do you know what happens if you're an illegal in his country. You go straight to jail. And God help you if you're a woman sneaking into the country from the Central American side.

6. We cannot handle 12 million illegals. If we could then hospitals, prisons, schools, etc. would not be suffering. We cannot handle all the world's problems, and we hear enough bitching as it is when we do interfere.

7. Yes this is a nation of immigrants(immigrants that also had to go through checkpoints back then), and the acquisition of this country wasn't exactly peaceful. That still does not mean that citizens do not have the right to live in peace. That we should have to pander to people that break our laws. That we should place an even heavier burden on hospitals because now not only do they have to stretch their money for supplies, but now they have to start hiring several interpreters. They have to have them on hand 24/7 so that all people can receive medical attention when they seek it. We have enough problems with our own crime and it's horrible that people are killed in drunk driving incidents or raped by people that never should have been here in the first place.

8. I will use the word illegals to describe illegal immigrants. It's self-explanatory and calling that racist is just silly and sad.

We could always start flooding into Mexico and start stealing whatever good jobs there are

Seriously though I like the minutemen's idea of aiding the ranchers on the boarder to help them construct a wall on their own properties, especially if they can make em hop-proof by skirting em with some kind of metal trawel if not barbed wire then I think it might help the border patrol at least have a much smaller section to worry about crossings on. Only problem that leaves is all the people who get to the wall and run the risk of starving or dehydrating, shame the Mexican governments only so helpful in keeping people from crossing the desert in the first place.

Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 05 May 2006, 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Likely already do for some positions.

Maybe some of these telemarketing firms could send some of their call centers there?

First of all, that's a lie. In Mexico and in Latin America in general, protesting is dangerous. Military is not that efficient, but in the underground, illegal groups can be very efficient. Here is not that "freedom of speech", it is just in theory. Protesting can mean death or prosecution to a person. Here in Colombia it's even worse: there are illegal groups of right wing and left wing, and all the population in between, so you're in danger wherever you may look, because the amount of people of illegal groups is very, very small, but they are very, very well armed and trained. So there the only option is silence.

Even in those circumstances, people do protest, people act several times for improvement of life conditions in our countries of origin and, as you can see, that hasn't changed anything. That has just helped leaders to be murdered, kidnapped, exiled, threatened, etc..





The problem is that "checkpoints" are not limited to confirm that a person willing to work and live here is not a criminal or terrorist, is healthy, will contribute to society, will pay their taxes, and all those things. If you want to immigrate to the U.S. you have to:

a. Be adopted (as a child, of course) by a U.S. couple
b. Be an immediate relative of a U.S. citizen (with specifications)
c. Be the fiancée of spouse a U.S. citizen
d. Be the spouse of a recently dead U.S. citizen
e. Be the spouse or child of a U.S. legal resident
f. Be a person with exceptional skills (which means national and/or international recognition) at their field of work, or professional or a worker. Except for those with exceptional skills, they have to be already hired by a U.S. company, which must prove there are no U.S. workers qualified for the proposed employment.
g. Be an investor who will hire at least 10 U.S. citizens. The minimum capital must be U$1.000.000
h. Win the green card lottery, which gives an specific amount of resident visas to citizens of countries with low immigration rates to the U.S.. This, of course, means that Mexico, Colombia and other latin countries don't apply for this visa. Pretty logical, since the objective of this visa is to get diversification to the country.

I, for example, don't fit into any of those categories. My father does, though. My point is, you have to have links to the U.S. already to be eligible for a resident visa. Links that 99% of illegal immigrants don't have. It's not like they don't go the legal way because they're criminals, they just do it because they want to go, but they just can't do it the legal way. If they could, they wouldn't be illegals, they would do it the right way. I think requirements for a visa should be softened a little bit at least. Softer immigration requirements, bigger and better control over the whole process (and spacially, over who does and who doesn't actually enter to the U.S.), less illegal migration.

There could be instead other requirements, for example, knowledge of english language or entering a process of learning english (it's not like they will become soon english language experts, but at least to "defend themselves" in daily life).

I think that it's a good idea to guard the borders with all of the events that have occured these last few years. I mean, I know that people should be able to come and live a different lifestyle than in their pasts, but I feel that if we don't watch the borders, some illegal muslim extremists could come right in the borders, and then it would be a free-for-all for them. I mean, the Mexicans aren't as bad as what some Muslim terrorists have in mind, like to kill huge amounts of people. I would probably be a little more satisfied, however, if the illegals already here could pay taxes instead of living here with almost all of the benefits that we who's parents (and soon to be I) pay taxes. I also feel that it would be safer for our country to regulate our borders more than we have before. I think that if we keep being tolerant, there'll be another 9/11, and we'll have to regulate our borders anyways.

If Bush ruins our economy much further, maybe some of us will be trying to cross Lake Eerie to get to Canada, eh? Both Mexico and the U.S. have the same problem. Rich elite and corrupt government running everything and sitting on all the money. Neither gives a dmn about the lower classes. Those are the bad guys. (the elite & government) And is it really such a terrible thing for Spanish to be spoken here? A second language is a useful thing. Am I missing something? Now I will shut mi boca, muchas gracias.

Of course, that's the reason why the the government wants an official language, because speaking Spanish is such a terrible thing. It has nothing to do with hospitals spending limited funds on interpreters. It has nothing to do with people are put at a disadvantage when they don't speak the main language when they come to a new country. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was a pretty dumb idea to not have an official language to begin with in a country of immigrants. It has nothing to do with the language barriers that police, firefighters, etc. that run into troubles everyday because people don't bother to learn english. English kind of comes in handy when a firefighter asks a resident if there is anyone left in the building. Too bad in one instance in Georgia the mother didn't know enough english to correctly answer, and a kid burned to death. The firefighter thought she had understood, but it turns out she didn't. Not to mention it's just so easy for victims to report a crime when they don't speak the main language. Not to mention more and more people here are getting passed over for jobs in my state because they don't speak spanish. Also not speaking english is great for teachers trying to teach children in states like Florida. Class time is wasted there just trying to teach kids English. Of course we don't need an official language. We'll just spend billions of dollars teaching anyone that goes into a public service career different languages. I mean they already go through years of training what's a couple more years if immigrants that come to our country are spared the cruel intentions of our government by making them learn english?

Well, one thing is that the US economy is not doing horribly, it is doing quite well for the most part and George Bush's tax cuts probably did a lot towards that. They are also the reason for the deficit. Honestly, we should probably be cutting government programs or increasing taxes around this time because I think that we have done enough in terms of Keynesian economics which tax cuts are a part of and now we need to take what we gained from that attempt.

I don't think that there will ever be a mass migration to Canada unless it is from the left and even that is probably overstated. Canada's job market is not strong enough to support the US population, heck, Canadians immigrate over to the US to benefit from our job market and this is true in terms of Canadian doctors, Canadian actors(Jim Carrey) and probably canadians in many other fields. I tend to doubt that the US even is bordering on economic collapse, at the very least such a conclusion does not seem to be founded on the opinions of economists and more on the opinions of those who create fear for the heck of it. The US may be losing its edge in the global economy but it is not sinking.

It is not a bad thing at all for spanish to be spoken but in order for the nation to work we must all understand each other. People can speak whatever language they want and they do, we have no complaints with people speaking vietnamese, russian, french, or even zulu, the problem lies with people who are not able to speak or comprehend english and how they lack the ability to interact with society. I mean, seriously, we let people go around speaking Klingon, I don't think that the problem is with people having the ability to speak spanish and using that, the only problem is with people not knowing english which is a bad thing and a problem that we need to fix. It is harmful for them and it creates problems for us and our economy.

Sorce, you pointed out something to me I hadn't thought of, probably because I speak both languages and know a lot of others who do, it didn't occur to me at that moment what problems there could be for the non-bilengual. I stand corrected. Awesomelyglorious, I can tell you are a thinker and probably better educated than me in some things, however, though I respect your opinion and your right to have it, I cannot agree that Bush and his handlers/thinkers can do anything but harm to our country and the rest of the world. So let's just agree to disagree on the Bush thing.

You also don't hear about this because politicians refuse to bring it up. They like to talk about how 'they're doing jobs Americans won't do'. They don't talk about how violence against latina women in this country is a problem. They don't talk about how this is a country of freedom and equal rights, but they have no problems about people coming here and working for wages lower than everyone else because it's cheaper to treat them like sub-par humans. Also, knowing english comes in handy when most traffic signs are in english. You would hope that anyone here with a car would know little enough english to understand the signs, but I have doubts about that. Especially after I went to a restaurant and the greeter had to get a translator when I asked for a take-out menu.

Yes, Sorce, I see what you mean. It's a shame our politicians are playing games with us and people suffer. I tend to look at one little aspect and not think of the big picture. I think because my mother grew up around the latino culture and I always have felt very comfortable with it, the thing that was really in the back of my mind was that I'm seeing more and more people hating all things Mexican and it scares me a little, so I don't look at all sides objectively. I think the current administration is subtly encouraging groups to be at eachother' throats by allowing the problem to escalate, too, so that the public will be distracted.

Illegal immigration is a problem. The key word there is **Illegal**. It has nothing at all to do with them being brown people, like alot of uber libs will turn it into. The only reason pre-dominantly white lib society does this is because they know that the mexicans will pull the race card, and the libs blindly ignore the fact that the mexicans don't have adequate ground to scream racism in this situation, because of fear.
I am not racist against anyone, but it also don't mean I'll let people run over me just because theyr a minority race. This attitude of liberals I find to be, in and of itself, racist. I'm not a conservative either, I'll call BS on both of them where I feel it's neccessary. But this is mostly a liberal issue.
I don't blame the Mexicans for coming over illegally, as I know I would do the same thing given their situation. However, our government does need to do something about it, otherwise we're gonna be broke and penniless, with no social security or retirement or anything when we get older. It has nothing to do with them being brown. Anyone who claims being against illegal immigration is racist is a f*****g ret*d.
There are alot of libs would see a black man rob a bank and a white cop arrest him and claim it's racist, but the robber wasn't arrested because he was black, he was arrested because he robbed a bank. Just because someone is a minority doesn't mean they should be immune to following the same laws and rules as the rest of us. I have friends who are black, brown, white, christian, jewish, atheist, I've even managed to find a Native American friend at one point in time. I don't look at the color of one's skin, I look at their actions and the way they carry themselves.
I think they should adopt a police of legalising the current aliens, or putting them on a bus back home. This way they have an option. If they choose to become legal citizens and pay taxes like the rest of us, they should also learn our language. English is our official language and the national business language, I don't think we should have to bend over backwards to accomodate people who half of whom are here illegally in the first place. Theyr coming to our land, they should have to learn our language. If I moved to Mexico I'd learn Spanish.

Some corrections: Polk provoked the war 1846 by stationing the US army along the Rio Grande, very well aware that the Mexicans considered the Nueces river as the southwest border of Texas. So from the Mexican point of view, they just defended Mexico, they didn't invade the USA. And it just "happened" to be at the same time Polk made the settlement of the Oregon territory with Britain, giving up what would become British Columbia.




Note that the Rio Grande crossed through the provinces Tamaulipas, Couahila and Chihuahua, it wasn't even a provincial boundary river, until the Americans made it to be the national boundary.



And it wasn't 1/3 of Mexico that was taken either, it was about 1/2. After the Gadsden purchase it was actually 52%. And you helped the French to take back Alsace-Lorraine, just 1.6% of the territory of France, from the "dreadful Germans" (who, for that matter, inhabitated most of the province).

USA taking 52% of Mexico=very good, made in defense, absolutely justified. Germany taking 1.6% of France=horrible crime, assault, one nation raped another...

Back to topic: What would you do with the elite in today's Mexico? They wouldn't accept loosing their wealth and power. Should they be exterminated? Would the "common Mexicans" really make their country prosper, if the elite was swept away?