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skafather84
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03 Mar 2007, 11:11 pm

Flagg
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04 Mar 2007, 12:06 am

skafather84 wrote:


Reminding me why they are no different from Al-Qaeda or the Taliban.


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skafather84
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04 Mar 2007, 12:53 am

i'm watching it now.....this documentary is just disturbing. i mean i've seen messed up stuff online....but this is way more disturbing.



Flagg
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04 Mar 2007, 12:57 am

skafather84 wrote:
i'm watching it now.....this documentary is just disturbing. i mean i've seen messed up stuff online....but this is way more disturbing.


It's the only film that ever made me loose bowel control.


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skafather84
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04 Mar 2007, 1:29 am

it just strikes me as brainwashing kids.....it's disturbing.



snake321
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04 Mar 2007, 3:52 am

TimT wrote:
The Humanists came up with the term "Politically Correct" to describe their morality's "good".

It sounds like you haven't thought it out what you believe about freedom. Here's a website to help you: http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html


Yes I did, it's just not as cut and dry and one ended as you'd like for it to be. It's not like our options have to be total chaos or a dictatorship, there is middle ground. As I said, if something is prooven then it's a known fact, reguardless what anyone WANTS the facts to be. They have to get over it and accept reality. If that sounds cold then I'm sorry but that's just how it is. People need to evolve themselves. I believe in freedom, but freedom with the responsibility to be a good person and raise good communities.
I'm sure almost any human can consciously agree that ignorance, selfishness, hostility, greed, ego, stupidity, apathy, hate, bias, insecurity, and lying are bad traits (but apparently people have this idea without the bs and without the problems they create, people would get bored...How immature), bad traits produce bad people, who produce a bad society, who produce a bad world. Genetically all those traits are born into people through evolutionary process from our background in the wilderness. Play time is over, it's time people put the petty s**t behind them and get real, get to solving problems. Apes can't solve problems. Religion is prooven wrong, if we reject proof we'll never accept the truth, the truth which is needed because once everyone knows it and accepts it, there will be no more religion to fight over. Further, it will help us map out a plan to solve any problems that arise.
Now, there is room for disagreement on things that aren't prooven fact or common since. Candidates running for leadership could all have different plans on how to run things. But none of it would be tribal-based. No political correctness fanatacism either. All candidates would deal logically with facts, without bias, they might have some different ideas about plans or strategies, but none of the petty NON-REAL BS that people are acting like at present. People can choose where they live, where they work, where they go to school, who theyr friends are, any opinions which meet common since non-bias criteria that are of unprooven facts where there is room to disagree, they can choose what clothes they wear, what food they eat, how they wear their hair, what kind of car they drive, who to vote for (between more than 2 candidates, there'd be a minimum of 5), but freedom should come with a responsibility. A responsibility to onself, and to the community. The dominance gene is the root of all the world's problems, people need to evolve beyond it. It is in people to do it, most are too lazy or set in their ways though.



Flagg
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04 Mar 2007, 4:03 am

Small government promotes Social Darwinism and destroys society by making a "Kill-or-be killed" atmosphere. While I won't deny business can handle some things better due to the survivalist model it's not good for serving the masses, there is no "Trickle Down" wealth. Rich hoard money for themselves, the government makes sure you have a pension at old age and decent health care no matter who you are.

This delusion "Smaller is better" model luckily only exists in two first world nations - America and Australia.


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ahayes
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04 Mar 2007, 4:13 am

I think that the medical system in the US is failing because we aren't allowing capitalism to work to its full extent.

The two things we are doing to make it way too expensive:
1. Restricting medical school students - If we had COMPETING doctors maybe that would bring better doctors and perhaps we wouldn't be charged the outrageous amount we are now
2. Drug patents - As far as perscription medication goes, if you have health insurance, but aren't rich, you are SOL when it comes to perscriptions that don't have generic version available, insurance won't pay for it, and being brand-only you are screwed as far as paying for it yourself



ascan
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04 Mar 2007, 4:54 am

jimservo wrote:
Here is the Richard Dawkins reference

Quote:
Eugenics May Not Be BadIN THE 1920s and 1930s, scientists from both the political left and right would not have found the idea of designer babies particularly dangerous - though of course they would not have used that phrase. Today, I suspect that the idea is too dangerous for comfortable discussion, and my conjecture is that Adolf Hitler is responsible for the change.

Nobody wants to be caught agreeing with that monster, even in a single particular. The spectre of Hitler has led some scientists to stray from "ought" to "is" and deny that breeding for human qualities is even possible. But if you can breed cattle for milk yield, horses for running speed, and dogs for herding skill, why on Earth should it be impossible to breed humans for mathematical, musical or athletic ability? Objections such as "these are not one-dimensional abilities" apply equally to cows, horses and dogs and never stopped anybody in practice.

I wonder whether, some 60 years after Hitler's death, we might at least venture to ask what the moral difference is between breeding for musical ability and forcing a child to take music lessons. Or why it is acceptable to train fast runners and high jumpers but not to breed them. I can think of some answers, and they are good ones, which would probably end up persuading me. But hasn't the time come when we should stop being frightened even to put the question?


(source quote)


So? I've read that previously, and I don't see how that corroborates your assertion that he is "a backer of eugenics". He's just pointing out what's obvious to most people capable of rational thought. Have you ever read any of his books?



snake321
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04 Mar 2007, 11:33 am

that doesn't mean anything. Yes, people CAN breed negative things out of their gene pools, but it takes some effort. It's not just gonna happen at the snap of a finger. Assuming Hitler made man into apes is not only ignoring the behavior people and the history of evolution leading up to Hitler, as well as the behavior of people in different parts of the world even during and after Hitler's times. There are way too many loopholes in Dawkin's theory there.



ascan
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04 Mar 2007, 12:07 pm

snake321 wrote:
...There are way too many loopholes in Dawkin's theory there.

What theory? He's just putting the point over that certain things should be discussed. Why shouldn't they be?



snake321
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04 Mar 2007, 12:10 pm

Dude, be real, Hitler didn't alter eugenics.



konyannah
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04 Mar 2007, 12:41 pm

modern religions are not crumbling, quite the opposite in fact: unfortunately the people are cleaving more and more to dogmatic and unthinking literalism, very dangerous - Islam and Christianity are really what we're talking about aren't they, there are no other religions on the world stage any more, although both of those break down into multiple variations that are also at odds with each other as well as the other religion - what a mess


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ascan
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04 Mar 2007, 3:18 pm

snake321 wrote:
Dude, be real, Hitler didn't alter eugenics.

Sometimes I think I speak a different language to some of you people...

Anyway, I don't think you're understanding things correctly. Nobody's commenting on Hitler's efficacy at practising eugenics. The point is that many people associate eugenics with Hitler, and so irrationally assume that because Hitler was bad, so anything connected with eugenics must be also.



snake321
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04 Mar 2007, 3:45 pm

Oh my bad for misunderstanding lol, that sounds like a sensible statement.... People bash science because it's proof contrary to what they ***WANT*** to believe reality is. People have to be willing to accept reality for what it is rather than trying to dictate a reality far greater than themselves. Fighting against reality is bad, negotiating with reality to make reality nicer is the way to go.



ascan
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04 Mar 2007, 4:27 pm

snake321 wrote:
Oh my bad for misunderstanding lol, that sounds like a sensible statement....

I'm glad we got there in the end.