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cubedemon6073
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07 Jul 2020, 12:14 am

Fnord wrote:
NoClearMind53 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So you advocate tightening of rules and greater regimentation, right?
On large companies and finance institutions, yes. Large firms need to be democratically managed and not focused solely on profit (which feeds excessive passive income).
Ahh ... Socialism ... never mind, then.

:roll:


NoClearMind53, there are certain people who can't accept anything or even look at the possibility of anything outside of what they accepts to be true.


Some people are like this....

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auntblabby
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07 Jul 2020, 12:25 am

socialism has been far kinder to me than capitalism ever thought about being.



aghogday
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07 Jul 2020, 7:45 am



Feed A Child too much Sugar and Fat And They Get Cranky And Gassy;
Instant Gratification Works this Way With Adults and iS OnLY limited by
Imagination And Creativity as We Are Capable Of The Fruition Of Great Dreams
(Hmm... in Balance What have Humans Really Done Great) And Fruition of Nightmares Like
The Most Despicable Leaders And Minions Who Will agree With The Orange Cheesecake Wisdom
That 99 Percent of A Pandemic Is Totally Harmless. Humans And Their Tools, Just aren’t ‘Rational’
Enough, Overall, For ‘One Nation Earth’ As When Life Gets Rough or Even Easy They (We) Become
Naturally A Cultural ViRuS Unto ITself; The Rest of the World Will Close Its Borders To ‘The Likes’ of
The ‘Trump Virus’ But if A One Earth Government
Falls to the Same Human Weakness:
Minions Create Most Despicable
Leaders and Whenever Desert
Scarcity Challenges Grow Now
Or All You WiLL DO Sugars or Fats
Come, Minions And Their Leaders
Rise as They Fall. Understand the
Balance of Nature: No Species
Will Dominate the Earth For
Balance; And Yes, As Long As
We Wear Cultural Clothes and
Dominate Nature As Minions And
Despicable Leaders Do,
We Are Enemy
Number one
Of Balance;
Know ‘Thy Enemy’;
Make Room For (Time
Out Spaces) the Human (Race
To Consume Nature And ‘Digest’
Our Self). ‘Borders’ Save Us And
The Rest of Us From Ourselves.
I suggest, Copious Amounts of
Broadly Globally Available Online
Mutually Consensual Porn as It
Makes For All Natural Virtual
Human Birth Control, Wait!
We Already Figured out
How to Cull Ourselves
With our most
Basic Instincts
To Survive; Ironically,
Delicious; But Yes, only
In Moderation; HeHer;
We’ve Already Devised A
Global Way Of “Governing
Ourselves”. See ‘The Light’, Now Then
Marilyn Monroe Came Again To Save:
One World Porn Government, O.W.P.G.
It’s Just A What Comes Around
Goes Around Human Bonobo
Solution
For Greater
World Peace;
Spill ‘The Seed',
Humans in Non-Fertile Soil’;
The Old Bible Needs ReViSioN: Hmm....
Yes, And There is 'That' Issue of Suicide Incel
Bombers As They Will Literally Kill Themselves
And Others For the Promise of even Just 'Getting Some'
After Death Butt Wait! Again! Finding Online Porn and Virtually
Unlimited Numbers of 'Vestal Virgins' As Well; They Tend to Re-Think
Re-Feel-Sense
Their
ORiGiNaL
Mission
After IT
Already Comes Complete;
On Top of that Science Shows
Lust is A Source of All Human Creativity
And Productivity BuTT iT's Also Worth Noting
That it takes Two Hands for Most Human Creativity
And Productivity in Laser Focus; Again, Moderation is Key
in all
Stuff
Bright
And Beautiful
On Screams of Screens too..;)


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Fnord
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07 Jul 2020, 11:23 am

cyberdad wrote:
reducing the ever increasing wealth disparity between the richest 5% and the poorest 95% isn't necessarily socialism. However the mechanism that achieves in spreading money around is where you can throw labels.
Then let's label it the "Sherwood Forest Method" -- Steal from the rich and give to the poor.



auntblabby
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07 Jul 2020, 11:39 am

what it boils down to, is the earlier people on top have the nasty tendency to want to systematically pull up the ladder of success to bar those below from joining them. ask them to pay their share of taxes (their net tax rate, including state and local, is below that of their employees, just ask warren buffet's secretary) and they say, "taxes are just for the little people (that harpy leona helmsley said that), i EARNED my way to the top above all that!" or ask them to reform the educational system so graduates aren't saddled with a lifetime of debt, and these same hypocrites say, "i had to bust my butt to get through that system, everybody else should have it as hard as i did! no free lunch!" or, examine the flavor of hypocrisy that chief hypocrite clarence "uncle" thomas exhibits, he opposes any other POC getting the same affirmative action help he did to get through university. power corrupts and human nature sucks.



Fnord
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07 Jul 2020, 12:26 pm

Sure, blame the successful, the wealthy, and those at the top of the social dog-pile.

Just don't blame the junkies, the drop-outs, the juvenile delinquents, the unwed teen mothers, or the people who simply didn't give a damn about paying attention in class, studying hard and getting good grades for the choices they made as their first and only opportunities passed them by.

Yeah ... never blame the victims ... especially the self-made ones.



cubedemon6073
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07 Jul 2020, 12:53 pm

Fnord wrote:
Sure, blame the successful, the wealthy, and those at the top of the social dog-pile.

Just don't blame the junkies, the drop-outs, the juvenile delinquents, the unwed teen mothers, or the people who simply didn't give a damn about paying attention in class, studying hard and getting good grades for the choices they made as their first and only opportunities passed them by.

Yeah ... never blame the victims ... especially the self-made ones.


And guess what?

You can avoid drugs, not drop out, not be a delinquent, not be an unwed parent, paid attention in class and got extra help in class, studied your ass off, get good grades and you can still not be successful.

You're making it seem like avoiding the negative things in life and doing the positive things in life guarantees anything in life and if this is what you think then you're lying to yourself and the rest of us.

Ya, avoiding what you suggest to avoid and doing the things you suggest we do will improve a person's chances but doing certain things and avoiding certain things guarantee nothing.

Doing positives and avoiding negatives guarantees nothing. Anyone who says otherwise is lying through their teeth.



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07 Jul 2020, 2:47 pm

True. They don’t guarantee anything — but they certainly give people a better chance to succeed.



cubedemon6073
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07 Jul 2020, 3:56 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
True. They don’t guarantee anything — but they certainly give people a better chance to succeed.


Agree



Bradleigh
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07 Jul 2020, 6:27 pm

Fnord wrote:
Sure, blame the successful, the wealthy, and those at the top of the social dog-pile.

Just don't blame the junkies, the drop-outs, the juvenile delinquents, the unwed teen mothers, or the people who simply didn't give a damn about paying attention in class, studying hard and getting good grades for the choices they made as their first and only opportunities passed them by.

Yeah ... never blame the victims ... especially the self-made ones.


Isn't someone being a bit judgemental. I would say that a lot of the time the system sill failed these people, that they got hooked on drugs to make themselves happy, they dropped out because education was not catered to their needs, juvenile delinquents for a whole host of reasons such as a lack of power in their lives and same with things like teens getting pregnant to then end up as single parents. You can tie a lot of these things to the rich hoarding the wealth to the top and pulling the economic ladder up with them.

Poor families unable to afford recreation to not need drugs, schools funded well enough that it can engage the youths who are also well fed so they can pay attention, a feeling of power in their lives so they don't become delinquents rather than get another outlet, and a system of comprehensive sex education, available contraception and affordable abortions in a speedy manner before moral questions or the ability for these single parent families to still be supported. Free childcare and ability for these teens to still get their lives moving forward.


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07 Jul 2020, 6:34 pm

Fnord wrote:
Sure, blame the successful, the wealthy, and those at the top of the social dog-pile.

Just don't blame the junkies, the drop-outs, the juvenile delinquents, the unwed teen mothers, or the people who simply didn't give a damn about paying attention in class, studying hard and getting good grades for the choices they made as their first and only opportunities passed them by.

Yeah ... never blame the victims ... especially the self-made ones.


I don't think it's that simple. Neo-liberal philosophy assumes those merchants who hold financial power globally will be benevolent in a mutually beneficial arrangement in wanting to create wealth they provide jobs. A win-win.

But over the last 100 years there has been effectively an increasing disparity with the top 5% holding more personal wealth than their forebears. How this was achieved is likely through manipulation and exploitation rather than "hard work".

Being "industrious" nowadays equates to the ability to make strategic alliances, networks between the merchant class and government/military complex and through manipulating the masses/stock market rather than soley through innovation etc.



cubedemon6073
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07 Jul 2020, 9:09 pm

You guys are wasting your time with Fnord.



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07 Jul 2020, 9:17 pm

There are socioeconomic causations when it comes to juvenile delinquency, dropping out, getting pregnant as a high school student, etc.....but it must be said that the majority of folks under these circumstances manage to transcend their “origins,” and achieve some measure of success.

And if they don’t, many believe they can encourage their kids towards success....and many of these kids happen to succeed.

I’ve known many people from all “classes”—and I do believe that socioeconomic disadvantage is not a ironclad excuse for becoming a criminal or becoming a drug addict.



cubedemon6073
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07 Jul 2020, 9:44 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There are socioeconomic causations when it comes to juvenile delinquency, dropping out, getting pregnant as a high school student, etc.....but it must be said that the majority of folks under these circumstances manage to transcend their “origins,” and achieve some measure of success.


How do you know this?

Quote:
And if they don’t, many believe they can encourage their kids towards success....and many of these kids happen to succeed.


How do you know this?

Quote:
I’ve known many people from all “classes”—and I do believe that socioeconomic disadvantage is not a ironclad excuse for becoming a criminal or becoming a drug addict.


Maybe, Maybe not! Here is my question. What is the ratio of those in the lower socioeconomic disadvantage bracket who become criminals vs those who don't? What about those in the higher socioeconomic disadvantage bracket?



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07 Jul 2020, 10:07 pm

How do I know? It’s because I’ve been around people of “low socioeconomic status” for a long time. I once lived with a woman who had a bunch of kids (and other family) living with them. I see how families operate under these conditions. Both single parent and dual parent households. Most kids don’t become executives (I haven’t risen above a clerical job)—but most manage to get some sort of employment, have a partner or get married, have kids, and do okay (not great, but enough not to wonder where their next meal is common from).

There are people who just become criminals because they want to become criminals. Some of these folks come from high socioeconomic conditions.

I never said that low socioeconomic status does not breed potential conditions for people to not do well. I only said that low socioeconomic conditions can be transcended.



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07 Jul 2020, 10:42 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
How do I know? It’s because I’ve been around people of “low socioeconomic status” for a long time. I once lived with a woman who had a bunch of kids (and other family) living with them. I see how families operate under these conditions. Both single parent and dual parent households. Most kids don’t become executives (I haven’t risen above a clerical job)—but most manage to get some sort of employment, have a partner or get married, have kids, and do okay (not great, but enough not to wonder where their next meal is common from).

There are people who just become criminals because they want to become criminals. Some of these folks come from high socioeconomic conditions.

I never said that low socioeconomic status does not breed potential conditions for people to not do well. I only said that low socioeconomic conditions can be transcended.


Kraftie, you're going by your own personal experience. But, how do you know that your own personal experience is true for the whole or vast majority?

50 jelly beans in a jar being black does not determine that the vast majority of 500 is black. Your personal experience while true is to small to make the determination for the whole.