how many think not being PC is racist/sexist?

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By the way, although I do believe racism exists in the US, it exists in EVERY SINGLE CULTURE. I see Mexicans (and I know some...) who complain about the racism against them in the US, yet, I can assure you that some/many of them are racists against african-americans...I see Asians who complain about the same, yet, I can assure you that some/many of them are racists against african-americans ans hispanics...I see many hispanics complain about their entire race being treated unfairly with immigration in the US, yet when hispanics cross borders between other latin american countries, they are treated the same and many times worse than when they cross to the US...

All we can do is not look at color as much as we possibly can...teach our children to not look at color...race, etc...and anyone that mistreats them because of their race, ethnicity, etc...should be treated only as ignorant not as hateful...

This is true, but whites (being the current majority) benefit the most from this insular behavior. In a few decades, that might shift pretty dramatically.


qft.

This is an interesting discussion. To be PC or not to be PC is a very complicated issue. I am an unusually polite person so it's difficult for me not to watch my speech. I remember reading in all my Psych. syllabi's that your papers would be marked down if you used sexist language in your papers; such as using man to represent everyone. I thought that was a very weird rule but I followed it anyway because it wasn't that difficult.

Years ago I got in a discussion with an old friend of mine about stereotypes. I said I didn't like to buy into stereotypes because I found both the positive and negative ones offensive to the individualist spirit. After all I told him I don't want you to stereotype me into a category due to some arbitrary group. Being a better debater then me he quickly outwitted me by saying what makes stereotypes so offensive to people is because there is a grain of truth to them. I think there is nothing so bothersome in human nature as to have people assess you before they even know you and heaven forbid be right about it.

I do believe that alot of racism does stem from class wars. People like to say racism is based on ignorance which is perhaps correct on the emotional level but on the rational level it's a survival mechinism. As long as you put people in groups and isolate them from each other it's an us vs them game. I find prisons are a perfect model of this. Prisons are probably one of the few society structures in the US that I can think of in which it's members seperate each other by race for safety reasons on a day to day basis to the point where if you want to find a racist look no further.

I kind of think of seperating months into groups of people (March is about is ridiculous as having people wear ribbons to represent different causes. Does this really do anything? Won't it be just easier to give kids more options about what different types of history classes they want to take. But who can complain about not having to go to work on MLK day.

I think the most damaging aspect of a PC culture is twofold. The first is what has best been described as a constipation of language. In the 21st century (welcome to the new inquisition ) we not only have curse words but we now have offensive words as well. The problem being that these offensive words change quite often and are thrown out of context of their intended meaning. The other is given that the US is such a litigious society everyone is afraid of beind sued and what is worse is that minorities (lawyers have fun with this word) know that the only way to find a solution to their individual problem is through the courts.

And PCness is all about hypocritical double standards. It's just inverted bigotry. Hating on males or whites or straights is not "progressive", giving special consideration to someone and treating them like pets because of them being female or ethnic or w/e and overlooking any human criticism and acting like their totally virtuous, or they can do no wrong, that's just as bad. Furthermore, that's also treating people are part of a group, rather than as individuals.

I actually have the BALLS to judge the individual, based off his or her actions. I know that's not very "PC", but it's right. Even if right is "boring".

Being PC is good to an extent. But going overboard with it is rediculous. It's not so easy to be totally PC.

Since when does any corporation treat women or ethnics like pets that can do no wrong? From what I've seen, if you suck, you're fired. If you're smart, you're in. Are you sure you're not just assuming that this is what goes along with the image that since a person is in a job, that they are "less qualified" or must be babied? I've never seen a business do that. The only thing that I've seen that walks around on tip-toes is the media, and that's a whole different animal. And when do people hate on straights? Never seen that before. It can easily be overlooked too because as a straight person, is being straight going to stop you from getting a job, etc? No, but being gay might. We're not affected by straight-hating comments because we are in the majority. Discrimination against straights is NOTHING compared to discrimination against gays. It may sting a little, but is it systematic? No. The same goes for the other categories. Comments may be hurtful, but it'd when they are systematic and have been for years that it creates generational problems.

Merr, I'm not coming down on you at all. Corporations like BET and other PC groups try to breed this mentality where minorities should be treated with kid gloves, anytime anyone makes a constructive criticism about anything they do we're labled as "racist/sexist". I know, some institutional prejudiced does exist in some sectors of society against you, I'm sorry for that and I wish I could help, but I have no control over what they do.
Example being hispanics who blindly assume anyone against illegal immigration is "racist" against them.... If anything, they are racist against us. I understand they've got it bad, but we have to look out for ourselves and our well being too. Meaning we've got to be able to run and organized society, that's a little hard to do when you don't know how many people are living in your land, you don't know if any of them are criminals, I mean illegals get free health care while citizens are unable to afford a doctor.... Personally I think medical assistance should be a right for everyone (even illegals), but I think it's highly flawed when illegal aliens are being put before actual citizens here. Much of white society is so scared of being called racist, and are filled with this guilt complex so much (about things they have no control over), that they just overlook the double standard there. A white person is faster to call me a racist usually than a black person is, although hispanics buy into self-favoritist propaganda moreso (statistically speaking)..... IE we should overlook them breaking our laws which are there for a reason, **just because** theyr brown.
Although not all blacks follow Sharpton/Jackson, some do, this is another example of where the PC thing gets out of hand. Even some "progressive" rappers, such as NWA and Dead Prez, are very racist against whites. I am very much against racist police depts, and in my area

I have witnessed the horrible event when two white cops beat down a black man for being with a white woman (this was on our local news), it infuriated me... Those police should have been fired, with no hope of getting a job in law enforcement ever again. I've had rednecks make nasty comments about me because my best friend is black. I did not hesitate to give them a piece of my mind either. Have you ever seen a white man who would risk his own neck to step up to bat and fight for a black man's rights? Now you've met one. Most people will only stand up for their own rights, I'll stand for everyone's rights, and even sacrifice for the goal of justice and liberty to my fellow human beings.
My mother, who works for all black people at a day care, is often discriminated too for being white, singled out all the time, and treated like dirt at her job. This is to show job discrimination does go both ways. Historically whites have had the upper hand in the power grab, but the playing field is being more evened out now, with other ethnic groups collectively rivalling the majority status of white people, coupled with self-loathing white liberals who might turn down a higher qualified white man for a lower qualified ethnic man. Though, some times the ethnic man is more qualified, ultimately, the more qualified person should get the job, reguardless if theyr black or white or brown or whatever color they are. This is why on one hand, I don't support affirmative action, but on the other hand, I do support a replacement system, something that is fair and equal to everyone, of all colors. I do understand that some employers are racist, but this goes many directions, racism period needs to stop.
That being said, I don't have a problem with any race, I have a problem with racism, be it against blacks, whites, browns, yellows, reds, or whomever. But racism is not as much of a black-and-white issue as people make it (no pun intended there).
As for the gay/straight thing, I basically agree with you there Merr, gays do have it a lot harder than straights do. My point wasn't about that though, it was about the over-all underlying attitude behind prejudice.
If my words come off harsh, please know I don't mean for them to. I've just dealt with so much ignorance and group think that I've nearly lost my tolerance for lazy minded group thinking sheep.

Anyone who thinks that racism/sexism is over needs a reality check. Have things changed? Yes. Are these things still a problem? Yes. Do whites and males still enjoy relative privileges in American society? Yes.

Really snake, I hope I didnt come across as being anti-white or thinking you're a racist. I know you're not. And frankly, if anyone here is, it really is none of my business.

I dont think the whole immigration thing is racist at all. Similary, I dont think it's racists if Britons/Europeans want to limit immigration from other countries either. People have a right to do what they want with their homeland and it's not really right or fair for outsiders to tell them how to run it.

My whole post was jsut a resonse to the common perception that a minority in a job must have gotten there due to AA. From what I understand, companies pick the most qualified worker first- the more specialized and white collar the job is, the more this applies (of course). The legal way of doing AA is to pick from a pool of qualified workers the minority- I know that still sounds wrong, but there's always some way of picking an employee right? They'll usually go after the best for the job. Some companies/colleges have to fill quotas as well. I dont know what to think about this. I know that college is the only way out of poverty for a lot of minorities, however. The majority of the poor in the USA are black/minorities (and statiscally women are also poorer than men). If you have no money and so-so grades in high school (which rarely ANYONE takes seriously, even people here I've heard say they were bored with it. I took it seriously but it may have been luck of the draw since I come from a scholarly family and was quiet) than how can you get out the cycle of poverty? You have no money for uni, you dont go. You dont go, yore stuck in a neighborhood with a mindset. You never get out of your bubble, and you're poor. It's a cycle, and I feel like if AA has been used in school and even in some blue collar jobs, it probably has saved many kids from repeating the cycle of poverty.

Now with that being said, I dont think AA should be based on race anymore for college entry, but moreso on income level so we can break the cycle for black/white/latin whatever color the kid is.

It's cool that you stick up for your friends. I dont let people be racist against whites around me. It's annoying and yes, it does look hypocritical.

No, the largest ethnic group on welfare is white/European, and the largest group of poor people are white/Euro. A higher percent of blacks are poor, it is true. But in terms of number of poor people and dollars spent on poor people, whites come in first.

I will say that poverty is HELL to get out of, and it'll reign on your soul, believe me I know this, still trying to get out of the hole myself.... However materialism is over-rated, as money is merely a system we've been bred to adopt and come dependent on. As a matter of fact in ancient times in babylon (pre-judaism, christianity, or islam), they rejected and fought the imposition of monetary systems.

"Politically correct/incorrect" is a concept which is recorded as being developed by marxist/leninist/maoist regimes. As one would suspect it is an attempt to stifle free expression and suppress ideas of an opposing point of view. As a result it should be rejected by all open minded free people.

Various political and identity groups have learned well from George Orwell in trying to control thought by shaping the language. As we have seen there was a movement to promote abortion then the opposition called itself anti abortion, the the promoters of abortion chose to call themselves pro-choice in order to make the other side look bad because they were ANTI abortion and in todays world, heaven forbid, that you should be against anything as the word anti implies. So then the anti-abortionists shifted their name to Pro-life. And on and on it goes.

What a crock of crap it all is. Words mean things. Name things what they are. Speak your mind clearly and if you think the opposition is a bunch of dingbats or evil, say it outright as eloquently as you can. But do try to keep the conversation civil, and avoid the name calling unless it really fits.

I really wonder why Barack Obama isn't being openly criticized in the press for the positions expressed on the web page of his church which declares itself openly Pro Africa first and foremost. I believe it is because it is politically incorrect to criticize any thing about black culture these days. For instance U.S. News ran a cover picture of Obama with a headline "does race still matter ?" Of course it does. Does anyone really doubt that there will be many Afro-Americans (can I say that or is it politically incorrect) who vote for him simply because he is black. Or if you openly declared that you would not vote for him because he was not of your culture and you believe that something closer to your own culture would be better for the U.S. (and maybe you are Chinese); do you think you could say that and not be accused of racism ? Maybe you are right ? Maybe you think that his culture is liberal socialist culture and you could care less if he was purple with orange stripes.

In a free open society, one of the most politically incorrect things is the whole concept of "Political Correctness"

I'm not racist myself, but I can't help but comment objectively on the following hypocracy. Mexicans b***h and moan about borders and immigration, etc, but what the Mexicans do to the Guatemalen immigrants is even worse than what the Americans are doing to the Mexicans. Nice little double standard there.

Also, how about we do away with the asinine labels we give people of non-white races. I'm talking about African-Americans, Asian-Americans, blah, blah, blah. By federal law(constitutional amendment actually, I think), if you are born in the USA, you are an American Citizen. You are no longer a part of Africa or Asia, you are an AMERICAN. Almost every black person I've met has no right to call themselves an African American, they've never even been there!!

Born here, American.
Immigrated here, [Country-of-Origin]-Americans.

All Americans are entitled to American rights and American privledges, and the ability to actively participate in local, state, and federal politics and government, provided you can speak English damnit. (I only say this because how stupid would you have to be to move to Japan without knowing a word of Japanese, not because of any racial prejudice.)

EXACTLY. Even our languages are slave languages too, we all speak corrupted toungues. I've long said a bunch of PC nut jobs would vote hillary or obama JUST BECAUSE theyr female/black. Look at how people now practically worship celebrities and politicians, because of their wealth and status...... I just heard on the news the other night at an obama political rally, people were passing out like they do in church. Even Alexander the Great believed he was a god. This is freemasonry mystery religion, look how it's surfaced, look up Bohamian Grove, Skull and Bones.
That's why I'm becoming more confused now about illegal immigration in a way..... According to the system we're used to living by, it would be a bad thing. But this was never really our system to begin with. The nation state is nothing but a big corporation. Big Business interests run all the corporations (nations). I've been digging away at all this for a long time actually.

It needs to be noted that for the most part, or at least an equal part, these labels, (particularly the hyphanated variety like Asian-American and not the pejorative ones like spic or honkey or wop) are labels selected or supported by the minority themselves. I still remember how the term Afro-American used to be the standard (Kind of like Euro-American) until some celebrity of that community angrily protested that Afro was a hair style and he was an African-American!

A group may choose to use such a name for itself because it is separate to a degree or because it chooses to maintain a separation. The Jews strongly and the Chinese strongly choose to maintain separation because of their own racial/cultural identity, although on an individual level there is much variation. Nevertheless, for the most part, these minorities appear to be comfortably integrated into the American cultural fabric. African-Americans vary widely in the degree to which they want or value maintaining a separate identity. (I object to "Native Americans" because I was born here too, "Aboriginals" is a correct term but some find it pejorative, so if I may, I will use "Amerinds". ) Amerinds vary from total separation to total assimilation. And Hispanics vary from highly separate to fully integrated, but darkness of skin color has a strong influence there. (I know some "Hispanics" from Spain and they are like any other Euro-Americans.)

I doubt we can get rid of these labels because some people wear them with pride. It is just like some Aspies want to keep their diagnosis a secret, but other Aspies want it known. It has become an identity for them and in that identity they find support and they find that it smooths their relationship with those outside the group because it helps both sides in an exchange accurately adjust their expectations. And there lies a key point! The labels can be helpful when they convey an accurate understanding and are not pejorative, but they are very problematic when they evoke an inaccurate or especially derogatory stereotype (e.g. all blacks are lazy, all Jews are greedy, all honkeys are arrogant, all polacks are stupid, all irish are drunks, all Aspies are geeky nut cases, etc. etc. etc. )