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01 Sep 2008, 7:48 pm

Well Fnord, it certainly is your right to be soured on religion. The whole "wayward sheep" speech would seem pretty disengenuous right about now.

Fnord
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01 Sep 2008, 7:51 pm

slowmutant wrote:

And why would anyone have to give up an engineering degree to have religion? These two areas are hardly mutually exclusive. But I won't belabour the question because it really doesn't matter to anyone except Fnord.

Read my previous post. That incident with the youth pastor is not an isolated one. Religious leaders everywhere are preaching against science and engineering, and simply because those disciplines rely on material evidence, rather than religious experiences and the feelings they induce.

Science is also about asking questions, which is anathema to religion, where you are expected to blindly believe, or have blind faith in everything you are told by religious leaders.

Science is about investigation, and not revelation. Scientists reach their conclusions after researching their questions, instead of waiting for a voice in their head to tell them what's real.

Science is self-correcting, whereas religion accepts contradictory statements as 'mysteries' or 'mysterious ways.'

Science encourages inquiry, investigation, and the presentation of evidence.
Religion encourages complacency, indoctrination, and repetition of rote dogma.

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01 Sep 2008, 7:55 pm

Science has dogmas of its own, and there is a scientific establishment that will quash any new ideas that conflict with its official line. Science is similar to organized religion in the way it's governed.

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01 Sep 2008, 7:59 pm

slowmutant wrote:

It is called "Peer Group Review" and it is intended to be used to uncover "false dogma".

Too bad religion doesn't have something similar ... the Inquisition, Jonestown, and 911 might never have occurred.

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01 Sep 2008, 8:02 pm

These horrible events might have been the direct result of someone's PGR. WHo knows?

A Peer Group Review is only as good as the reviewers.

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01 Sep 2008, 8:03 pm

Fnord wrote:

The last great religious put-off I experienced was when I spoke to some kids at a church event about the joy and satisfaction I derive from the engineering work I do. Then along comes the youth pastor, who tells them that having ambition for a science or engineering degree goes against God's plans for them. He may as well have told them that I was going to Hell, and that they would follow along right behind me with their science dgrees in their hands.

Now those kids are questioning the validity of a higher education in favor of a lifetime spent preaching a gospel of ignorance.

Something I am sure of, is that our own experience in life define us who and what we become and or course that would likely influence our belief system, the thing I noticed with some people, by observation, is that some choose the opposite path and some others even go farther into going to a more extreme way, it seems to be a generalization to all religion based on that experience, at least when it comes to engineering, saying "I won't give up engineering for religion" does not come up objectively, rather, subjectively.

I don't think all christians would have the same opinon about engineering, perhaps the denomination you had problems with, were fundamentalists, it is something hard to see sometimes, that some issues depend on certain circumstances.

I have had similar experiences in the past about religion, although what I believe triggered my doubt and stuff, was observation of other people with things that seem logically inconsistence and learning from the 'mundane', science books that contradicted what I have been thought of. Perhaps if I belonged to a liberal denomination instead, I would not have become agnostic, but I can't say that for sure.

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Last edited by greenblue on 01 Sep 2008, 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Eggman
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01 Sep 2008, 8:05 pm

Steers the ship away from the reef.

Kilroy
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01 Sep 2008, 8:08 pm

so eggman are you gonna start your own religion

slowmutant
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01 Sep 2008, 8:08 pm

Too late! Hull breach on decks 10 to 14. Shields are failing.

z0rp
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01 Sep 2008, 9:09 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Fnord wrote:

greenblue wrote:

Fnord wrote:

So does religion...

You are wrong here, it does contritubte to something.

Aside from contributing to the wealth of religious leaders, there is nothing that religion contributes to society that can not be contributed by secular authority.

You're wrong. Secular society obviously lack the inspiration to faith, hope, and love that religion provides.

Religion doesn't provide much love from my experience but yes false faith and false hope are direct outputs.

Eggman
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01 Sep 2008, 10:38 pm

I dont have a church, whould a garage do>

Kilroy
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01 Sep 2008, 10:39 pm

for now yes

or you can use nature

z0rp
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01 Sep 2008, 11:43 pm

Eggman wrote:

I dont have a church, whould a garage do>

Lots of successful people start out in their garages, I know One in particular which you can gain some inspiration from.

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02 Sep 2008, 5:25 am

Although, as has been noted, the world is full of suckers who will believe anything, it might be more useful to figure how to end an old religion. It seems almost impossible.

slowmutant
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08 Sep 2008, 5:42 pm

Sand wrote:

Although, as has been noted, the world is full of suckers who will believe anything, it might be more useful to figure how to end an old religion. It seems almost impossible.

It is. Ideas can't be killed.

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08 Sep 2008, 5:54 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Sand wrote:

Although, as has been noted, the world is full of suckers who will believe anything, it might be more useful to figure how to end an old religion. It seems almost impossible.

It is. Ideas can't be killed.

People can

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