What's so bad about fascism?

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08 Feb 2009, 2:15 pm

two of the main objections to facism I see reference WWII and the holocaust.

I dont see a well resoned argument for racism or nationalism leading unerringly to war. I call BS on people who say that just as I look down on the oversimplified explanations of the american civil war being about slavery.

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08 Feb 2009, 2:22 pm

Cartesian_Atheist wrote:

two of the main objections to facism I see reference WWII and the holocaust.

Look at Argentina during and after Peron. Or Chile, under Pinochet. Or Mexico when the PRI ruled. Unless you were in the ruling elite you were a wrong down nobody or a drug lord.

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08 Feb 2009, 2:27 pm

I also don’t accept that fascism necessitates a lack of guaranteed rights for the common man. History has seen a great many benevolent dictatorships, you conveniently forget them.

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08 Feb 2009, 2:32 pm

Cartesian_Atheist wrote:

I also don’t accept that fascism necessitates a lack of guaranteed rights for the common man. History has seen a great many benevolent dictatorships, you conveniently forget them.

Um... that's actually kind of the definition of fascism, even from its historical proponents.

Not all dictatorships must be fascist, and benevolent dictatorships are historically rare.

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08 Feb 2009, 2:40 pm

no it isnt

and there must have been thousands of kings over the millenia that were loved by their people.

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08 Feb 2009, 2:42 pm

Cartesian_Atheist wrote:

no it isnt

Yes it is. Fascism is premised on the subordination of the individual to the state.

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and there must have been thousands of kings over the millenia that were loved by their people.

And monarchism is not the same thing as fascism, so stop conflating the two of them.

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08 Feb 2009, 2:46 pm

You ignore the possibility that a leader might voluntarily confer rights upon his people.

and for a list of enlightened absolutists (by no means complete btw) look yonder...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator

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08 Feb 2009, 2:54 pm

I know about enlightened despotism. But that's not the same thing as fascism. Stop pretending it is.

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08 Feb 2009, 2:59 pm

why dont you stop pretending that fascism is nazyism. Intellectual dishonesty starts with labels.

Perhaps you should define fascism in terms of its qualities and then exclude any examples that you feel do not satisfy those criteria.

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08 Feb 2009, 3:00 pm

Cartesian_Atheist wrote:

I also don’t accept that fascism necessitates a lack of guaranteed rights for the common man. History has seen a great many benevolent dictatorships, you conveniently forget them.

Modern fascism is the industrial equivalent of feudalism and serfdom.

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08 Feb 2009, 3:13 pm

Cartesian_Atheist wrote:

I was not the one who initially brought up the Nazis as examples of fascism. Read up on Mussolini if you want a definition of fascism then, he was among the earliest to promote fascism and to use the term.

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08 Feb 2009, 3:33 pm

that would be like reading marx for a definition of communism, something i did only to reach a very different conclusion to that of the author.

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08 Feb 2009, 3:36 pm

Cartesian_Atheist wrote:

that would be like reading marx for a definition of communism, something i did only to reach a very different conclusion to that of the author.

Given that a number of modern communists are Marxists (including at least one regular on this board), and Marx as definitely the most influential theorist in communist thought, it seems reasonable to read Marx to understand communism. Who would you propose as the great fascist thinker?

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08 Feb 2009, 3:46 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

You mean seriously my opinion? No, I might consider fascism to be more viable than Marxism, but that is more due to my profound lack of respect for Marxism.

I would expect nothing less from a person that has such a disrespect for humanity in general, the idea that we as a species can get along and work together for the betterment of each other must be an anathema to one such as you.

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08 Feb 2009, 3:54 pm

Cartesian_Atheist wrote:

that would be like reading marx for a definition of communism, something i did only to reach a very different conclusion to that of the author.

That's like saying I read the bible and disagreed with Jesus' version of Christianity

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08 Feb 2009, 4:02 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

Because Marxism = respect in humanity? Look, the question you brought up was capitalism vs fascism. I answered it, and I also threw in my perspective on Marxism.

Quote:

That's like saying I read the bible and disagreed with Jesus' version of Christianity

The term is shared with non-Marxists as well.

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