Thoughts on the Tibet issue.

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Dussel
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23 Mar 2009, 1:07 am

twoshots wrote:

I don't think we could put the economic pressure on China without putting the economic pressure on ourselves.

Especially not, because China holds $1'000 bio. in US-treasury bonds.

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23 Mar 2009, 3:46 am

It seems South Africa is going to hold an International peace conference, but has banned the Dalai Lama from attending because South Africa is China's main trading partner in Africa :roll:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5955959.ece

Doesn't South Africa realise this makes them look like hypocrites of the highest order?

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ruveyn
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23 Mar 2009, 6:45 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I admit I have a lot of respect for China who's had their share of hardships. Maybe the US doesn't get involved because if something were to happen close to here we wouldn't want the Chinese to meddle in ours? I don't know if we could put economic pressure on them without it meaning disaster for millions of Chinese since it's such a populous country. It has a lot of culture too.

Respect for China? The Chinese Communist revolution ran up a Butcher's Bill of over 20 million people (under Mao). Respect? That makes Hitler look merely naughty and Stalin look like a prankish kid.

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23 Mar 2009, 8:44 am

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

Delirium wrote:

Everybody needs to read this article.

I would, but I'm supposed to be doing my history homework right now. Can you give me the gist of it?

tl;dr summary: Tibet was a feudal theocracy before China, it's a lot more complicated than it looks.

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Zyborg
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23 Mar 2009, 9:28 am

Before China liberated Tibet, it was backward feudal monarchy where most people was property of Lamas. People got eyes gouged out and tongues ripped off for stealing chicken. Former Dalai Lama was adherent of Hitler. I do not understand Free Tibet Movement. The Lamas do not want to have free Tibet, but Tibet with is their playground. Western liberals think they are so very trendy by supporting reactionary religious cliques.

Dussel
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23 Mar 2009, 11:06 am

Zyborg wrote:

... and now it is a communist dictatorship. ... Mmmmhhh ... "Do you prefer to be 'hanged, drawn and quartered' or do like more to be 'burn on the stake'?"

---

There is a real problem that a lot in the west see only the Dahlia Lama as an religious leader with a lot talk regarding peace, but that his regime was closer to Spanish Inquisition than to western democracies is often forgotten.

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23 Mar 2009, 2:40 pm

Zyborg wrote:

this is almost a direct quote from the Chinese propaganda. you are either a troll or complately brainwashed. try getting your information about the world from other sources than the People's Republic of China Information Agency.

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23 Mar 2009, 2:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:

anna-banana wrote:

I doubt you would even exist if the world stayed completely indifferent to the Holocaust and the nazi rule in Europe. you seem to support indifference to the oppresion of minorities yet you belong to one yourself. why should anyone have cared about your people if in your opinion we shouldn't care about the same thing happening to others?

Why indeed? The Allies did not fight Germany to help the Jews. They fought to save Britain and to keep the Nazis from taking over Europe.

No bombing missions were ever dispatched to stop the trains carrying victims to the death camps. Not once. Not ever.

While Germany was being pounded to sh*t by the air-raids the gas the chambers and the furnaces were going full blast. And the trains kept taking their cargo to the camps to be killed.

I do not expect anyone to care about me or mine. It is enough that I care about me and mine.

And you, you look out for your own welfare. It is the surest bet you have.

ruveyn

nobody in the West knew about the Holocaust up until 1943 IIRC, and even then they didn't believe it straight away. if there was no intervention there would have been hardly any Jews left in the world today. I find your attitude deeply disguisting and disturbing.

ruveyn wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I agree with you here though. let's not get overly politically correct. the Chinese are massively brainwashed by propaganda, they have no respect for others, or for their own (mass executions of criminals, killing people for organs, treatment of political prisoners, treatment of factory workers), they have a shameful history (the great proletarian cultural revolution, Tiannanmen Square). I have no respect for that insane bunch.

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Mar 2009, 6:11 pm

I meant respect for their culture. Communism's a European import. Communism involves revolutions and an unchallenged proletarian dictatorship, it's a political system taken from elsewhere and has nothing to do with Chinese culture. It's an idealogy being forced on the people by their rulers under the guise of a republic.
No reason to hate an entire people because of something they have to endure.

Zyborg
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23 Mar 2009, 6:13 pm

China is not communist. It is even more free market capitalist than USA or Britain.

ruveyn
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23 Mar 2009, 6:37 pm

Zyborg wrote:

China is not communist. It is even more free market capitalist than USA or Britain.

It is a state run by thugs.

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Dussel
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23 Mar 2009, 10:30 pm

anna-banana wrote:

Zyborg wrote:

But unfortunately it is correct, like also reports about brutal repression in Tibet. Both propagandists telling their half of the true. It is a bit like Hitler pointing to Stalin's Gulag and Stalin is pointing to Hitler's Concentration Camps in the 1930s.

Dussel
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23 Mar 2009, 10:35 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Zyborg wrote:

China is not communist. It is even more free market capitalist than USA or Britain.

It is a state run by thugs.

But this not exclude capitalism. Look into the beginning of the capitalist system in First Dutch Republic, Italian City States or Britain in the 17th and 18th century: All this countries were run by small elites and excluded the vast majority of the people from any political influence. It was much later that Democracy and Capitalism merged.

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23 Mar 2009, 11:28 pm

jrknothead wrote:

When my country was occupied by a hostile power, the most powerful nation in the world in fact, we pulled ourselves up by the bootstraps, kicked their asses back across the atlantic, and became the world's most powerful nation ourselves. It wasn't easy, it wasn't pretty, but it was the only way we could become independent, and we did it no matter how many lives we lost, no matter how outgunned and outnumbered we were, and no matter how long it took.

That's what Tibet should do.

Until they do, China will continue to sh** on them and they won't get much help from anyone but hippies and out-of-work actors...

well Buddhists aren't exactly militants lol

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Mar 2009, 6:24 pm

Zyborg wrote:

China is not communist. It is even more free market capitalist than USA or Britain.

China is communist the only political party in China is the communist party and I agree with anna-banana. China is something to worry about, and is a threat to global security. Looks like China is getting ready to make a military move on Taiwan right now.

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27 Mar 2009, 1:36 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

No reason to hate an entire people because of something they have to endure.

I met several "regular" Chinese people and they were all brainwashed by their propaganda. it was like talking to a wall (or a religionist :p), they only accept their version of truth. they're not like Cubans, who b***h about Castro even without you asking them anything about it.

I only have respect to the handful of their political prisoners that dared to fight the system.

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