Well I guess Israel and Iran are at war now.

Post Reply New Topic

There had been 3 nation-wide massive protests in Iran since 79, and all ended by people getting brutally and massively killed (by the regime).

I am totally convinced that only a bigger dog can stomp this regime.

It will not be dethroned internally and peacefully, ever.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 20 Jun 2025, 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Then you're just going to have to accept hearing a lot of criticisms of the bigger dog and it's utter lack of legitimacy.

You emotionally desiring an outcome by whatever means possible doesn't mean the the means by which that outcome is being pursued is justifiable.

You can celebrate the antagonists doing your dirty work for you, but that doesn't make them any less the antagonists.

It's like celebrating a school shooter because they shot some of your bullies, meanwhile ignoring the bigger picture entirely because hey, your goals got accomplished for you, who cares about the cost?

Last edited by funeralxempire on 20 Jun 2025, 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Whether those people wanted the government overthrown is not relevant that's not why we did it. It's a moving of the goalposts. We invaded Iraq because they allegedly had WMDs and were cooperating with Al Qaeda. What those groups think of this is nonsense. The crimes that you're alluding to had been put to an end years before the second Iraq war with things such as no fly zones in place to ensure it didn't happen again. At least with the worst of it.

Secondly, they could have done so previously at any time by having a revolution. It was something like 10% of the population that was keeping things going. They could at any time have overthrown him, especially after the first Iraq War when substantial measures were put into place to prevent the worst of it. Us overthrowing their government has not been a net benefit.

As far as ISIS and Al Qaeda spreading, nonsense. The US literally sided with ISIS against the Syrian government. If it's really as inevitable as you say, then we wouldn't have needed to do that. The mainstream Muslims have no reason to like or support them as they tend to kill and destroy far more of their own people than of other folks. And, the body count is absolutely massive.

So, yes, absolute nonsense. We don't need more of this manufactured consent at a time when Iran is definitely right and Israel is definitely wrong.

I never saw you complaining about Iran's lack of legitimacy in interference in Lebanon and keeping dragging it to a totally destructive war unwillingly (and undemocratically).

So yeah, excuse me for not giving the slightest crap about the legitimacy of how Iran gotta be f****d up.

The US used to have mass strikes that were put down by force as well. That doesn't justify foreign countries stepping in and overthrowing the government. That is an internal political matter and it's hard to say what the people really want when they're continually being forced to unionize against the invaders just to continue to have a country. And look at what has happened in the countries where the US et al., have had regime change wars over the last couple decades. Afghanistan went back to more or less how it was prior to the war, Libya has slave markets, and Iraq had somewhere on the order of a million people that were murdered during the ethnic cleansing and recriminations that happened after the Ba'athists were overthrown and before any sort of new government or security forces were established.

I don't see how any of this should lead people to think that regime change in the country is a good idea. Iran is a lot stronger than any of those other countries. Has a much more effective military. Right now, if the US just stays out of it, we might build a little bit of trust that we're not going to be their enemy at all times. The Iranian people like the US more than their government does, perhaps we should stop fueling the distrust.

I wish you the best of luck with the unforeseen consequences you're begging for.

Who needs to consider the bigger picture, all that matters is instant gratification.

Same here. I don't particularly want to see Israel wiped off the map, but I also don't see a real alternative other than to just let Iran destroy the weapons that Israel is using to commit their crimes against humanity, which honestly could very well result in the country being wiped from the maps. I think the Iranians are less likely to insist on murdering every single Israeli than the Israelis are with Palestinians.

It gets tiresome seeing all the hypocrisy from some people moving goal posts, changing the rules and completely ignoring that the US has engaged in a lot of this stuff in the past. The US used atomic bombs to clear 2 entire cities, and bombed and firebombed a bunch of other cities. The firebombing of Dresden in particular should have led to war crimes charges as it wasn't a city that had anything to do with military operations, it was primarily a city where things were more of an artistic nature.

And yes, I wouldn't personally lose any sleep if the Ayatollah were removed from power and a better form of government came with it. I'm just not as foolish as many people I've seen posting in various places to assume that this would go even as well as Iraq did. It's a hard to invade country, can field a military of roughly a million, has a border with the ability to have weapons shipped in from China, Russia and North Korea without having to pass through other countries.

I do agree with folks that the Iranian government is pretty terrible, I wish people would stop pretending like doing a regime change to get the shah back in power would be any more likely to work than it did the last time the US tried.

But it happened, whether you like or not, and the majority of the Iraqi people were happy for it and still prefer the chaos and risk from terrorism they have today over living under Saddam's rule.

You are complaining about things that happened.

Not going to happen though. Iran still has like 1/3 of their missile launchers left, Israel is mostly out of their intercept missiles. The US, isn't super in favor of doing another regime change war in the Middle East.

I do get that you've got feelings here, but it doesn't make any of the rest of it less nonsense. It's a very different thing for an outsider to come in and overthrow the government. Like it or not, the Ayatollah has the support of enough Iranians that he's not going to go anywhere without an extremely blood civil war. Israel though could choose to stop committing crimes against humanity at any time, but the Iranians can't stop their operations until Israel's weapon systems are completely destroyed or the Iranians have nukes.

That doesn't make it relevant. We do not need another regime change war in the Middle East where the people don't want their government changed. You can BS the rest of us with irrelevant information all you like, but the fact of the matter is that with the size and power of the countries we're talking about, a better outcome was never going to happen. And, in this case, we could very easily wind up with another North Korea if we even try to overthrow their government again. The best way to prevent Iran from getting nukes is to deal with Israel so they don't need the nukes.

Oh yeah, you are the only smart fella here, we are all stupid and can't see the "bigger picture" but you.

Your amazing insight of the bigger picture apperently never included Lebanon being dragged to war by Iran for at least 3 times. Can't blame you, it's too small on the world map.

That's still not relevant to any of what's going on. That is a separate issue.

Some people make Saddam’s rule sound better than it really was. But his regime was extremely violent and cruel. He killed many Kurds and even tried to wipe them out completely more than once. And for those who say "at least there was stability," let’s not forget he started two big wars — one with Iran in the 80s that killed maybe a half million people, and the other when he invaded Kuwait.

Yes, the US invasion was also terrible and caused huge damage and deaths. But it’s hard to take people seriously when they act like Saddam was some sort of beacon for the region's stability.

The truth is, Iraq has been going through pain, injustice, and war for over 40 years — it’s not just about Saddam being good or bad, or the US being good or bad. It’s all a long, sad story of suffering.

Well said.

It always amazes me how many people excuse totalitarianism.

Praying for the protection of the Ayatollah, and the Iranian people. May he live to be a hundred years old إِنْ شَاءَ ٱللَّٰهُ