Losing Hope

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My ultimate preference is of course to see myself flourish, and while I'm not yet convinced that's going to happen, I'm also not yet convinced that it's an impossibility. "Giving up on life" is a last resort that I'm only going to pursue if/when I'm well and truly convinced that I'll never be content with my existence. If my situation doesn't improve, that day will come, but before it does, I'll do what I can to try and make sure it doesn't.

Thank you for the support as always, Isabella.

Yeah, the phone calls are more challenging, especially to new places. I always prefer making bookings online and what have you.

My metacognition was pretty good when I was last in therapy, but I'd say it's at another level now. It's hard to say whether that's got to do with mental maturation, more life experience, or an increased interest in understanding myself and the world around me. I'd imagine all three have probably played a role.

Ah I hope it works out for you.
For my I’ll never be content. I’ve given up hope of future or flourishing.
I think for you at 23 there still time and hope. For me it’s over.

Thanks man. I hope things get better for you as well.

I don’t think there's zero chance that things will ever improve for you, but I can understand how the odds would seem insurmountable.

In any case, I'll try therapy with an open mind, and if I honestly think that you would stand to benefit in a significant way from therapy, I'll let you know.

Sly has lots of virtues.

He’s stuck in a certain mindset, assumes that he is doomed.

He seems to usually think in a “worst case scenario” kind of way.

He has lots of the characteristics of “real men.”

At the very least, he is a fox.

Nice one, you might even feel pride in yourself for having the mindset and courage to do this
Its good to get started and sure if after a few sessions it turns out that she isnt a good fit long term, she might know of another therapist who could be.

You might find layers of issues, as in, when one significant chhallenge is close to being resolved a lesser but linked issue comes to the surface.

I'm going back to therapy soon too, my self harm tendencies are low level these days, but still pervasive and always finding new ways to express themselves! You might be surprised by what people here have done as expressions of self hatred... some I reckon would relate and understand, though I get that sharing such info publically, is not your thing.

It's good that you're ready to try therapy. Just keep in mind that process might not be made right away and that the purpose of therapy is not to fix your problems in a do this and you'll get what you want -way but to help you deal with them on emotional level. This is something that lots of people on this site seem to mix up

I think I understand the mindset as it's always at the back of my own, though I shifted it to if life isn't worth living by some arbitrary age what's the point. A relationship is one of the factors that'd make a life worth living but there others related to interests/ friends, even if the goal with that might just some enjoyment/ content with life rather than actually happy. Where as my early 20's I would have been just as singular and could only see a relationship as the thing I 'needed'.

Yet it hasn't really helped, I got a degree that has done nothing for me since, friends seem to drift in and out of life if online and in person nobody has ever really wanted to know me. I have had zero interest in me relationship wise, while usually end up pushed away from any friend I got closer to from the moment they found someone else. Some of that is the nature of being online less as they move on with life, but a lot is also just they won't try anymore.

So while what others are saying are right about trying to have more interests, goals, etc than just a relationship and it will help you in that regard. There's a whole aspect to it that I never figured out but maybe having help or support that I never did might be the difference (I had no idea what my issues were other than I didn't fit). So I often think I don't have hope to lose anymore, yet my mind will latch onto a glimmer before inevitable rejection (or these days have a mental battle trying not to).

I've been feeling pretty down and lonely today. I've been finding myself crying on the inside a few times today. At the core of my being, I don't really believe that anything's going to improve. Instead, it just feels like nothing's going to change, life is going to go on and I'm going to continue hurting until I cease to exist. Even if I'm wrong, I think the damage is already done, and it might be unreasonable to expect a potential romantic partner to put up with the baggage I've been afflicted with throughout my drawn-out fight to experience things that most seem to take for granted.

I just want proof that things are going to turn out in my favour so I don't have to expend so much of my energy thinking about love and dating, but I know that no such proof exists, and I can't unburden my mind in any permanent fashion until getting my first romantic experiences is no longer a concern, which won't happen until I've had them. I need a break.

I wrote the responses below a few days ago, so they probably seem incongruent with the tone this post has started out with.

Thanks for your support as always, Amity.

I wouldn't be surprised if what you said about the layers of issues ends up being true.

I think you're right that some people might relate on some level with the second issue, but I don't think that anyone will truly understand what I'm going through with it. It's a pretty unique situation, and when it all started, I had more severe depression and anxiety than I've ever experienced in my whole life, and I'd say it's almost solely responsible for my gaining 65lbs in only 4-6 months

Fireblossom wrote:

It's good that you're ready to try therapy. Just keep in mind that process might not be made right away and that the purpose of therapy is not to fix your problems in a do this and you'll get what you want -way but to help you deal with them on emotional level. This is something that lots of people on this site seem to mix up

Yeah, I have a better idea of what I want to get out of therapy this time around, and while it's probably not going to help me directly with getting a romantic partner, it might help clear some mental obstacles that make finding a romantic partner more difficult.

Not everyone single commits suicide

You're welcome Mr Inquisitior, know that others see something of significance in you, trust that more than the voice of depression, it often hijacks our thoughts.

Baggage as its called, is not insurmountable, truly.
If it were I wouldn't still be here, honestly. It means that almost everything is harder and will always be so and that sucks. No question about that.
Some have it easier, sure, but self pity for me feeds defeatism and that feeds self hatred and self harm.

I spent literally months of therapy working on changing my core beliefs, the theme that ran though all of the harmful ones were fed and reinforced by self hate.

I had to reprogram my default response to one of self care, and change those internal judgemental beliefs that werent mine in the first place. It was hard, but I promise you worth it.
My response to noticing a self hateful/harmful thought or action was by default more self hate/admonishment, it was like breaking an addiction.

I've got more than a fair share of challenges to deal with, some created by others, some of my own doing. When chaps list out all the things they would avoid in a love interest, many times it's an uncanny description of me. They are just parts of me though, despite their judgement to the contrary... those things dont define me. Many are as a result of things I didnt autonomously choose, or have control over.

Like bad news, we notice the negative in ourselves and others more, its human nature.

My point is that what you call baggage is normal for some of us on the spectrum, how could it not be?

If the world hadn't started adapting for people with physical disabilities and as a result they experienced more extremes of deteriorating mental health would *we call their maladaptive responses to that baggage?

Definitely not (*unless of course we are the type of person that knocks others to elevate themselves... but in fairness to them that just means they have their own challenges but are perhaps in avoidance mode)

There is always the option to interpret the challenges that you've been given as a opportunity to grow.

What “baggage” do you have?

You haven’t harmed anybody. You didn’t do harmful things to anybody.

I feel like you will sabotage yourself under the erroneous belief that you have “baggage.”

I'd agree that there's something of significance in me, that I'm a person of substance. Unfortunately, that hasn't made it any easier for me in the dating realm.

Amity wrote:

Baggage as its called, is not insurmountable, truly.
If it were I wouldn't still be here, honestly. It means that almost everything is harder and will always be so and that sucks. No question about that.
Some have it easier, sure, but self pity for me feeds defeatism and that feeds self hatred and self harm.

Yeah, I don't ever see all of my "baggage" dissipating. Some might in the right circumstances, but it's impossible to even guess how much.

Amity wrote:

I spent literally months of therapy working on changing my core beliefs, the theme that ran though all of the harmful ones were fed and reinforced by self hate.

I had to reprogram my default response to one of self care, and change those internal judgemental beliefs that werent mine in the first place. It was hard, but I promise you worth it.
My response to noticing a self hateful/harmful thought or action was by default more self hate/admonishment, it was like breaking an addiction.

Yeah, I can identify at least a couple of unhelpful beliefs I have about myself, but because they appear true (and they may be true), and because they go unchallenged, I can't rid myself of them.

Amity wrote:

I've got more than a fair share of challenges to deal with, some created by others, some of my own doing. When chaps list out all the things they would avoid in a love interest, many times it's an uncanny description of me. They are just parts of me though, despite their judgement to the contrary... those things dont define me. Many are as a result of things I didnt autonomously choose, or have control over.

In my case, when I see lists made by women about what they want in a guy, I don't tend to tick many or any of the boxes. I'm not an outgoing extrovert, I'm not an outdoorsy type, I'm not sporty or athletic, I'm not strongly invested in hobbies or interests, I haven't moved out of home yet, I don’t have a car or license, I don’t have a successful career, a six figure income, a sculpted jawline, or washboard abs or anything like that. I wouldn't even say I'm particularly nice, or kind, or generous, or empathetic.

I'm just a bitter, self-centred bearded sod with a lazy eye and the beginnings of a receding hairline, who is interested in very little, has minimal investment in society, and continues to long for that which is quite obviously out of reach.

Amity wrote:

Like bad news, we notice the negative in ourselves and others more, its human nature.

I've heard that a negative thought or experience is about 10 times more powerful than a positive one, which I'd imagine is probably some sort of defence mechanism against negative experiences.

Amity wrote:

My point is that what you call baggage is normal for some of us on the spectrum, how could it not be?

If the world hadn't started adapting for people with physical disabilities and as a result they experienced more extremes of deteriorating mental health would *we call their maladaptive responses to that baggage?

Definitely not (*unless of course we are the type of person that knocks others to elevate themselves... but in fairness to them that just means they have their own challenges but are perhaps in avoidance mode)

I see what you're saying. It's inevitable that we're going to have difficulties that most NTs won't have to contend with. I'm not sure whether my struggles getting a girlfriend in the context of having asperger's are analogous to the struggles a physically disabled person would have without their adaptations, that's something I'll need to give more thought to.

Amity wrote:

There is always the option to interpret the challenges that you've been given as a opportunity to grow.

I think it depends on the challenge at hand. In the context of wanting a romantic partner for so long but being unable to get one, I'm not so sure. I'd think you'd need to make some sort of progress in some direction in order to consider a particular challenge as an opportunity to grow.

I'm talking about the emotional damage that's been inflicted on me through wanting a romantic partner so much, and for so long, and not being able to get one. Even if I got a girlfriend, I don't think all of that damage will go away forever, though that'd still be the best way (or only way) to improve it.

I’m 32/33 and never had a gf. And older one gets without relationship and sexual experience the more most women won’t want anything to do with me, and the more income I’ll be expected to have.
I’d say there’s no chance of things improving for me. Things will only get worse and worse.

Wish that was so but based off what women have told me I have no virtues.

Foxes have it better. They don’t have any superficial value systems and mate for life.