Is it true that SJW movies only exist because of Trump?

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NaturalEntity
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08 Jan 2021, 3:11 pm

Might be your bias detecting SJW-type films more strongly than others? That's the only explanation I could think of. (No offence.)


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08 Jan 2021, 3:13 pm

Oh maybe. Well for example, I watched the movie Black Panther. And in the movie, there is a scene where some people in the government try to start a mutiny/coup. Now I noticed that in the coup, all the people that wanted to overthrow the government were men characters, and all the people protecting the government from being overthrown were women characters.

It felt like there was an agenda there to make the genders with one so fully on one side, and fully on another like that, but is that just me?



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09 Jan 2021, 7:25 am

That could be the case, yes, but I can't confirm it for sure. I wonder when the film was made? And are there potentially other SJW-type themes that intersect with the men rebelling and the women protecting?


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08 Feb 2021, 5:41 pm

Well there are themes in the movie about how black people are treated poorly compared to others around the world, but not sure if this is in the comic book or not, so maybe it's part of the comics, and therefore the movie wasn't trying to take on an SJW agenda of it's own, but not sure.



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08 Feb 2021, 5:49 pm

SJW moves have existed long before Trump was in power. There just seems to be more of them now.


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08 Feb 2021, 5:50 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
SJW moves have existed long before Trump was in power. There just seems to be more of them now.
Maybe because the term "Social Justice Warrior" is a more recent invention than the "SJW movie".


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08 Feb 2021, 10:03 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh maybe. Well for example, I watched the movie Black Panther. And in the movie, there is a scene where some people in the government try to start a mutiny/coup. Now I noticed that in the coup, all the people that wanted to overthrow the government were men characters, and all the people protecting the government from being overthrown were women characters.

It felt like there was an agenda there to make the genders with one so fully on one side, and fully on another like that, but is that just me?


The Agenda is to make asmuch money as possible, in this case. Marvel adds or vhanges scenes of their superhero films to adjust to local market preferences, like the Chinese market.
So, in this particular case you picked a film with a black superhero. Marvel must have assumed this would be of interest to a black audience - and a white audience that is willing to watch a film about a black superhero. Chances are, this audience is more progressive, which means more feminist tendencies. And probably mainland China isn't a market in ehich Marvel could expect much revenue with this one.
It's a film that cost a few hundred million dollars to make, so it better be tailored to black and progressive tastes, rather than to conservative tastes, so it can return the investment.

It's still a superhero film, so it's inherently about a strongman/woman saving nameless individuals from super evil enemies. .... A fascist fairytale. Sold to blacks and progressives. Quite an achievement, really.


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09 Feb 2021, 9:10 am

With Trump out of power, we can now answer this question experimentally....


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09 Feb 2021, 3:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
SJW moves have existed long before Trump was in power. There just seems to be more of them now.
Maybe because the term "Social Justice Warrior" is a more recent invention than the "SJW movie".

Agreed with both of you. They seem more overt nowadays but maybe that's because there are more of them.


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09 Feb 2021, 7:28 pm

shlaifu wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh maybe. Well for example, I watched the movie Black Panther. And in the movie, there is a scene where some people in the government try to start a mutiny/coup. Now I noticed that in the coup, all the people that wanted to overthrow the government were men characters, and all the people protecting the government from being overthrown were women characters.

It felt like there was an agenda there to make the genders with one so fully on one side, and fully on another like that, but is that just me?


The Agenda is to make asmuch money as possible, in this case. Marvel adds or vhanges scenes of their superhero films to adjust to local market preferences, like the Chinese market.
So, in this particular case you picked a film with a black superhero. Marvel must have assumed this would be of interest to a black audience - and a white audience that is willing to watch a film about a black superhero. Chances are, this audience is more progressive, which means more feminist tendencies. And probably mainland China isn't a market in ehich Marvel could expect much revenue with this one.
It's a film that cost a few hundred million dollars to make, so it better be tailored to black and progressive tastes, rather than to conservative tastes, so it can return the investment.

It's still a superhero film, so it's inherently about a strongman/woman saving nameless individuals from super evil enemies. .... A fascist fairytale. Sold to blacks and progressives. Quite an achievement, really.


Oh okay, but do they have to put racial and gender politics in it to make money? I have nothing against a superhero movie with a black superhero in it, it's just I don't like when they put racial or gender politics in it. In other superhero movies like a Superman or Spider-man movie you don't see that for example, so why put those things into black panther?

Can't a movie about a black superhero sell on it's own, without needing to attach race or gender politics to it?



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09 Feb 2021, 7:45 pm

ironpony wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh maybe. Well for example, I watched the movie Black Panther. And in the movie, there is a scene where some people in the government try to start a mutiny/coup. Now I noticed that in the coup, all the people that wanted to overthrow the government were men characters, and all the people protecting the government from being overthrown were women characters.

It felt like there was an agenda there to make the genders with one so fully on one side, and fully on another like that, but is that just me?


The Agenda is to make asmuch money as possible, in this case. Marvel adds or vhanges scenes of their superhero films to adjust to local market preferences, like the Chinese market.
So, in this particular case you picked a film with a black superhero. Marvel must have assumed this would be of interest to a black audience - and a white audience that is willing to watch a film about a black superhero. Chances are, this audience is more progressive, which means more feminist tendencies. And probably mainland China isn't a market in ehich Marvel could expect much revenue with this one.
It's a film that cost a few hundred million dollars to make, so it better be tailored to black and progressive tastes, rather than to conservative tastes, so it can return the investment.

It's still a superhero film, so it's inherently about a strongman/woman saving nameless individuals from super evil enemies. .... A fascist fairytale. Sold to blacks and progressives. Quite an achievement, really.


Oh okay, but do they have to put racial and gender politics in it to make money? I have nothing against a superhero movie with a black superhero in it, it's just I don't like when they put racial or gender politics in it. In other superhero movies like a Superman or Spider-man movie you don't see that for example, so why put those things into black panther?

Can't a movie about a black superhero sell on it's own, without needing to attach race or gender politics to it?


If it's just a film about a black superhero, it is only of interest to an audience that wants to watch a superhero film and doesn't mind the superhero being black. It will be accused of avoiding the topic, maybe. But it won't become a "must watch" film for anyone.
With the politics attached, the film itself becomes a statement that you can support by paying money to Marvel. What's not to like?
There's enough superhero films without political themes for superhero fans to watch.


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09 Feb 2021, 8:30 pm

But why is it that people will watch white superhero movies without racial politics added to it, but they need racial politics in a black superhero movie? Isn't that kind of close minded, saying it's only okay to have a black superhero if you make it political?

Why would people only want to watch a black superhero movie if it's a statement?



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09 Feb 2021, 8:57 pm

Because movies about white superheroes are inherently racist.  They imply that only white people can be superheroes and save the victim / city / country / world / universe / timeline.

Who defeated Darth Vader?  A white guy.

Who defeated Sauron? A white guy.

Who defeated Lex Luthor? A white guy.

Who defeated Mola Ram and the Thugees? A white guy.

Award-winning Action/Adventure movies almost always seem to feature a white hero or superhero.


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09 Feb 2021, 10:44 pm

Oh okay, well if that's the case, then make a superhero movie where the superhero is not white, but I don't think they should put themes of racism in it like they did with Black Panther, and they should just keep any racism themes out of it, and just make it a superhero movie without such racial politics.



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11 Feb 2021, 6:54 am

:roll:

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, well if that's the case, then make a superhero movie where the superhero is not white, but I don't think they should put themes of racism in it like they did with Black Panther, and they should just keep any racism themes out of it, and just make it a superhero movie without such racial politics.


It's not possible to make a film without making a political statement, or a statement about gender relations, or about race relations.

What you are thinking is free of politics, race and gender is just presenting these things in a way you feel is "normal".
But what's normal to you is very noticable to someone else.

Gender studies use the term "heteronormativity", for example, to describe society's attitude to see heterosexual relationships as the norm.
If you portray a homosexual relationship in exactly the same way, that portrayal makes the political statement that homosexual relationships are normal.

If you make a film about a black superhero, but you portray it in a way in which race relations are ignored, you're telling people that everything's fine with race relations. No need to talk about it. Black people might disagree.

So, by keeping a topic out of your film, you are making the statement that it's not necessary to talk about it.

Paul Watzlaeick famously wrote thst you can't not communicate, because the refusal to communicate is itself sending a message.

As I mentioned earlier, I see superhero films as proto-fascist: a strongman has to save the world - and the rest of the population is just nameless and powerless humans.
And the superhero, with his exceptional superhuman powers, doesn't need to stick to laws and stuff.

Pixar's Incredibles 1 and 2 are actually interesing in that respect because they deal with exactly these issues and they show the underlying ideology.
There's a guy who's a massive fan of superheroes in Incredibles 2, and at one point he says "Make superheroes great again", which is of course a reference to Trump's "MAGA". But: the character in the film turns out to be the good guy, at least in the way the film is portraying him.


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11 Feb 2021, 11:39 am

But there are plenty of movies with black protagonists though, and they do not have racial political themes in the dialogue though. For example, the movie Collateral (2004) or the first Lethal Weapon (1987) does this so I didn't think they needed to mention racial political themes in the dialogue in order to be percieved as normal.