The Singularity

Page 7 of 7 [ 109 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Previous topic | Next topic

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 100
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

31 Aug 2008, 3:51 pm

Because they have laws against it.

prometheuspann
Deinonychus

Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 320

01 Sep 2008, 1:48 am

Quote:

I agree absolutely with the concept of understanding the sources of crime but it seems to me it isn't that simple as crime is intricately integrated with all sorts of very powerful legal and criminal systems and merely understanding them still leaves you helpless.

Interesting ideas proving you did not read the references or think about how they applied.

Quote:

"Merely understanding them" enables you to avoid committing them, right?

No, you have to have useful tactics to meet your needs and that also requires the system to be sane.

Which would be one point of the whole problem solving process. Crime is one half personal responsibility and one half social responsibility- and things get worse because all we do is blame the criminal and fail to take responsibility for what society is
responsible for.

_________________
http://mytalktoday.com/solutions.invalid
My place PLEASE COME VISIT!!

prometheuspann
Deinonychus

Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 320

01 Sep 2008, 1:49 am

Quote:

An action is not criminal if there is no law against it.

Technically, an action is criminal if it causes harm, whether or not theres a law against it.

_________________
http://mytalktoday.com/solutions.invalid
My place PLEASE COME VISIT!!

slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

01 Sep 2008, 4:49 am

Quote:

Which would be one point of the whole problem solving process. Crime is one half personal responsibility and one half social responsibility- and things get worse because all we do is blame the criminal and fail to take responsibility for what society is
responsible for.

Bunk.

Crime is 100% personal responsibility.

prometheuspann
Deinonychus

Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 320

01 Sep 2008, 1:28 pm

Quote:

Bunk.

Crime is 100% personal responsibility.

You didn't read your pavlov, maslow, or sociology, and you are pretending you know something which is now silly considering that the real answer has been provided.

_________________
http://mytalktoday.com/solutions.invalid
My place PLEASE COME VISIT!!

slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

01 Sep 2008, 1:36 pm

I haven't read half as extensively as you, I will admit that.

twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

01 Sep 2008, 1:38 pm

prometheuspann wrote:

Quote:

Bunk.

Crime is 100% personal responsibility.

You didn't read your pavlov, maslow, or sociology, and you are pretending you know something which is now silly considering that the real answer has been provided.

"Moral responsibility" is a moral issue, and thus does not answer to evidence.

_________________
* here for the nachos.

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

01 Sep 2008, 1:39 pm

prometheuspann wrote:

Quote:

An action is not criminal if there is no law against it.

Technically, an action is criminal if it causes harm, whether or not theres a law against it.

Punishment causes harm, so punishment must be criminal.

prometheuspann
Deinonychus

Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 320

01 Sep 2008, 1:39 pm

Please do the reading and then come back to me on how much crime is personal responsibility and how much is social responsibility.

The cures are social. they do exist. Implementing them requires transcending blame.

:sunny:

_________________
http://mytalktoday.com/solutions.invalid
My place PLEASE COME VISIT!!

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

01 Sep 2008, 1:41 pm

prometheuspann wrote:

Knowledge of innumerable material is unnecessary to perform logical operations.

twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

01 Sep 2008, 1:42 pm

prometheuspann wrote:

I don't subscribe to a deterrent theory of justice, and I'm an anti-utilitarian. I am not impressed.

_________________
* here for the nachos.

prometheuspann
Deinonychus

Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 320

01 Sep 2008, 1:42 pm

Quote:

Punishment causes harm, so punishment must be criminal.

If the harm is more than theleast possible harm, then it is criminal, yes.

since this is generally true now in our system, punishment is criminal.
however, this doesn't have to be the case, especially if we transcend the paradigmn of punishing and just go to the paradigm of educating. Most people need education and punishment as such won't work and will only make them meaner
as per pavlov and the problem with negative re-enforcement.

some amount of social and civil control is good and required- but we are not in balance as is.

_________________
http://mytalktoday.com/solutions.invalid
My place PLEASE COME VISIT!!

prometheuspann
Deinonychus

Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 320

01 Sep 2008, 1:43 pm

Quote:

I don't subscribe to a deterrent theory of justice,

neither d o i

Quote:

and I'm an anti-utilitarian.

okay, no problem with that.

Quote:

I am not impressed.

_________________
http://mytalktoday.com/solutions.invalid
My place PLEASE COME VISIT!!

Page 7 of 7 [ 109 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Jump to:

The Singularity Post Reply New Topic

The Singularity