Aspie Savant?

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I am a recently diagnosed aspie, at the age of 46. My diagnosis followed my 8-year old son's by three years.

The AS condition explains my life experience extremely well. And I think I may have inadvertently stumbled on the last remaining piece of the puzzle today.

In addition to the symptoms one normally associates with AS, my life experience has been counterbalanced by an unusual level of success in academics and several businesses built around my longest running special interest. Indeed, prior to my AS diagnosis, I used to joking refer to myself as a "finance savant" to explain my depth of knowledge in this one area, and my otherwise relatively average level of knowledge in other subjects (average say for a graduate of a four year degree program). The "joke" was typically a response to a compliment, which I often find difficult to accept without responding via a little self depricating humor.

I stopped referring to myself as a "finance savant" after my AS diagnosis, for fear of insulting autistic savants and/or those who love them. Now, however, I believe my tendency to refer to my abilities via self depricating humor may actually be quite accurate.

The quote below seems to explain my professional life very well... including my use of computers/mathematics to model abnormal human behavior for the purpose of valuing stocks, identifying fraudulent financial reporting, and other related phenomena in markets.

"Savant skills, while not universally present in Asperger's persons, are very common, and generally include prodigious memory. When they do occur, in my experience, those special abilities in Asperger's tend to involve numbers, mathematics, mechanical and spatial skills. Many are drawn to science, inventions, complex machines and particularly, now, computers. Some such skills lead to PhD's in mathematics or other sciences and a goodly number of Asperger persons are gainfully, and highly successfully, employed in computer or related industries because of the natural affinity of Asperger persons to organization, numbers and codes. Steven Silverman examines the concentration and increasing numbers of Asperger's and Autistic persons in the Silicon Valley in an in-depth article on this phenomenon in the magazine Wired, in the December 2001 issue. That article points up the natural affinity of high functioning autistic persons for computer and related occupations, and examines genetic and environmental reasons why there might be such a startling increase of Autism and Asperger's disorders as has been reported in California generally, and in the Silicon Valley specifically." [http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/savant_syndrome/savant_articles/aspergers]

Are there others on the forum who have had similar experiences? Is there anywhere that aspie savants tend to gather, in person or online? It might be very helpful to connect with others who seem to share similar brain wiring, interests, and life experiences.

TIA,

I could say something similar about myself....but I do not (and I suspect could not) work in academics because of how political it tends to be around here.

Once I got away from a harassing environment, I tended to do very well in academia...because it's more supportive than "real world" jobs.

I worked in academia for about 15 years. It was ok. But, I felt that I could not present the level of rigor that I wanted in the classroom without running into resistance from students. The politics were annoying too, but not as much of an issue once I received tenure.

Fortunately, rigorous academic-styled analysis is appreciated in the investments field. Financial analysis is also well suited to aspies because financial decisions are supposed to be logical ... though anyone who studies the markets and does not delude themselves will realize that perception is not reality. Contrary to Nobel Laureate Franco Modigliani's announcement on national television that we were in the midst of a "rational bubble" (as the NASDAQ broached 5,000 in early 2000), market efficiency is a nice theoretical construct, but it doesn't work well in reality. Stated alternatively, it is unwise to assume that somehow, when hundreds or even hundreds of thousands of emotionally charged people form a consensus, the biases and errors of each individual will somehow cancel out. If that were the case, we wouldn't have wars, riots, mass hysterias, etc.

Are you sure you're a real savant. A savant usually has abilities that would normally be considered amazingly far from humanly possible. Their abilities are narrow and majorly contrast to their overall intelligence. Kim Paek is ret*d but he easily memorizes encyclopedias from reading them once really fast. You just seem like a normal whiz.

+1

I saw Daniel Tammet (one of the more known ones) on Letterman a few years ago (and also recently on youtube again) and the frequency for actual Savants on the planet is pretty small. I think he said that there are roughly 25 (discovered) known savants right now, including him.

We all have our strengths. For example, I can memorize long lists of numbers in minutes. I can also play piano music back after hearing it once. Note that this does not make me a savant (true savants can do things like these but with far greater power). Because savant skills are so specific, one would almost never confuse them with simply being "really good" at something, even if your ability is the result of genius.

Last edited by introspective on 03 Jun 2009, 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't know if No Exit is a savant, if you were directing your question to his signature line. Perhaps. But I know of a savant, whose doctor diagnosed her with autism and savant abilitiles. But she cannot read two pgs at once as fast as Kim Peek ! For sure. She is more of an artistic savant, and also in the law and with visuo-spatial abilities -- at least this has been her history. Only the doctor who diagnosed her knows what her future holds, and he never told her that part before he broke her heart. Here is some of her artwork, and I know she puts new paintings/works on the Galleries (#1, usually), every few days that goes by.
http://www.equiisautisticsavantartist.webs.com/

I am only a fly on the wall in this sad, sad situation.

But I would guess No Exit might have some savant abilities, you should ask ... maybe math ??

To be honest I have no idea. Just five weeks ago I had no idea I would be diagnosed with AS.

I'm am certainly not an autistic savant, like Kim Paek. On a social (savant) spectrum, I am much higher (lower) functioning.

I have no desire to be, or not to be, diagnosed with anything in particular. I am just trying to understand myself and how my brain is wired to a slightly greater degree with each passing day. If anything, it would be great to one day be able to understand why I've been spectacularly successful on some dimensions, and an equally spectacular (if not more spectacular) failure on as many (or a greater number) of others.

I think it would be better called a "specialist skill" or something along those lines, like the way I learned relativity theory when I was a young teen-ager. I'm good at learning, but the reason I learned relativity wasn't some innate skill; it was just that I was intensely interested in science at the time, and relativity struck my fancy. Autistic brains can do some rather amazing things when they get extremely interested in things. A more mainstream example would be a little boy who is fascinated with dinosaurs and knows so much about them that he's rattling off huge scientific names and some pretty advanced paleontology. You sometimes see it in typical kids, but you'll see it much more often with autistic ones, simply because of the tendency to focus on some narrow interest. Some people keep the same interest their whole lives; others switch between them; but universally, the tendency seems to be towards a very intense preoccupation leading to a rather high skill level.

That makes more sense IMO too. I found two seemingly conflicting views on the situation, oddly from the same MD. On the one hand he states there are 25 known savants (of which I am quite certain I'm not one of them ) yet on the other hand, he says 10% of the autistic population has savant abilities. Those two numbers are vastly different. So, presumably he meant to imply that roughly 10% of the autistic population has some degree of savant like abilities, where savant abilities are also a spectrum or continuum of some sort.

Who knows...

That said, if my son doesn't marry someone completely off of the autistic spectrum, the next generation just might be included in the group of known savants... With each of the last three generations, the AS condition appears to have become even more pronounced. But I digress...

I dont know what qualifies as a savant.

Ive scored 99% on pretty much every standard aptitude test I took for math and science. I can also solve a Rubics Cube in less then 90 seconds, and solve differential equations in my head.

But at the same time I have to rely on pre-made scripts in order to have a conversation because I simply cannot convert my thoughts into speech in real time.

So, I would say that I have an odd mix of talents and difficulties not found in an average person, which I understand is fairly common in autistic people. Whether that classifies as a savant or not, I dont know.

Although, there was one classmate of mine in college who called me a savant because I could square 3 digit numbers without a calculator. I dont think it takes that much to impress people who lack natural skills in a topic.

Maybe you are just extremely focused in one area? I read that London cab drivers brain structure changes because of their focus on learing the streets. Can you compare yourself with Vernon Smith?

I have spent ten years trying to solve one puzzle to do with the behaviour of stocks. Its almost destroyed me but I finally did it in October 2008. So I have something unique but Im not a savant.

There is some information here about savant syndrome:

http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/savant_syndrome

Yeah, it's pretty common to have some really high skills and some really low ones simultaneously, if you're on the spectrum. For example, since I was nine years old, I've been able to improvise a harmony to any melody after hearing it once. I've steadily become more creative over the years. It makes singing in church more interesting. Savant skill? No. Any first-year music student can do the same thing. High natural skill level? Yes. On the other hand, I didn't memorize my multiplication tables until well into my teen years.

I don't know if this has been addressed on here yet or not, but there are three types of savants. There is prodigious savant with somewhere between 25 to 100 in the world today. Then there is talented savant and splinter skill savant. I am a talented savant. 10% of all autistic people are savants. So there are many savants in the world today---just not prodigious savants. There are many articles on the internet explaining these types.

Yes, I think the savant characteristic is also a spectrum of sorts. Because of the way we are wired, those at various points on the autistic spectrum do seem to have a tendency to develop very strong skills in a relatively small set of areas, and those strong skills seem to be counterbalanced by relative weaknesses in other areas. There also appear to be areas where we may be more naturally gifted (which are probably also offset by natural weaknesses).

Some examples that I have run across are:

* An innate ability for high level statistics, yet probably average college grad level math skills.

* An innate ability for complex logic, but very poor natural ability (reasonably well compensated for over time) to connect another person's emotion(s) to whatever factor(s) is (are) driving his/her emotion(s). I can sense the emotion, and even tell what it is, I just cannot tell why they are experiencing it, so I often do not know how to respond, or even if I should respond.

* Poor rote memory skills, but a strong conceptual memory. This is an odd one, because I frequently see descriptions of AS that indicate I "should" exhibit just the opposite characteristics.

* I often can't remember names of people I've just met or the types of numbers (like a phone number or account number) that most people easily remember, but I have an odd ability to recall voluminous data (numbers and names, even) when they are related to a special interest.

* Very good pattern recognition skills, when the patterns are identified by statistical measures. But, without the statistical overlay, things tend to look like chaos.

In any event. It's helpful to learn more about AS, autism in general, and savant characteristics. It's a new diagnosis for me and I appreciate the time taken by everyone who has given feedback on the topic!

Best,