Why isn't NLD on the spectrum?

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Apparently it's almost exactly the same as AS, to the point where even psychologists can't always tell the difference. I also heard that 80% have both. So why isn't it an ASD?

Just a thought: If it were a PDD, how could anyone have both? It would one or the other.

In first place, because NLD does not exist as an official diagnosis.

It'll be in the next DSM, they say. Meanwhile, specialists diagnose it as Asperger's so that you can receive social benefits for it anyway, until it's recognized by Social Security once it appears in the DSM. Anyway, it's a controversial issue, because it's mostly considered a learning disability rather than an Autistic Spectrum disorder. In my country, the ones who diagnose it are the specialists in learning disabilities, but also some Psychiatrists. It's a bit of a mess right now.

Great question. It's just semantics of politics. They are basically the same thing regardless of how you look at it. AS/PDD is from a neurological/developmental perspective while NLD is from a language/learning perspective. NLD is more like a symptom in ways because some people have it with and without AS. Also the diagnosis for anything "official" (like the DSM) is geared toward more debilitating symptoms while NLD does a great job of describing strengths associated with it.

It all depends on who you talk to. Most neurologists group NLD and AS together and call it nonverbal communication disorders, basically nonverbal autism and part of the spectrum.

As somebody pointed out it was identified as a LD first, still they started to realize NLD kids had alot of commonalities with AS kids. With that being said if NLD is on the severe end, it usually is seen and diagnosed as PDD-NOS or AS.

One of the things they found out is because NLD is more common in women, is that the girls don't start really manifesting definable social problems and detrimental traits until around puberty, when complex social structures appear. What they found out with girls with AS is thier social problems start, around puberty. NLD may just be the female manifestation of AS. The difference is the third criteria with AS, doesn't show up quickly with NLD, it gets gradually worse as a person ages peaking either in the pre-teens or teens. They thought originally that NLD had no severe social downside, now with the significant data on suicide amoung NLD teens, they now do not believe that is the case.
What they found out with AS in girls is identical to whats out there regarding girls with NLD, its not apparent until an adolescent age.
The other fact is alot of psychologists don't know much about NLD, its more in the sphere of neurologists. What is known is NLD does qualify for PDD-NOS, and PDD-NOS/LD-NOS should be the official diagnosis from a good diagnostician.

The big thing is, its outside the dsm, psychs are very dependant on the dsm. Neurologists are not.

I think it's basically a psychologist and a neurologist looking at the same thing from different angles and coming up with two different names.

No, they're not identical; but they're similar enough to be part of the same overall "autism" label.

It does. It comes under PDD-NOS.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, NVLD is an official diagnosis in some European countries.

Here, it's an official diagnosis, but done only for children at this stage, and not recognized by Social Security for benefits for adults. It's supposed that if you're an adult, then you're not learning anymore, so why care if you have a learning disorder. And if your NLD is affecting your work and social relations, then they'll diagnose you with AS and you'll get the benefits from Social Security as an Aspie. This is my case. I have NLD, not AS, or very light AS, but I'll get an AS diagnosis, not NLD (if at all).

I think its more of an educational dx. I went to an ld center, and I got dxed nld. I am pretty sure I am on the spectrum. I fit all the characteristics. I imagine if I had gone to a dr. who woud diagnose such things.. I got close but there was some reason I didn't, can't remember why. But anyway I am a little old to worry about such things.

Anyway, I have heard the big difference is the lack of special/strong interests. I definitely have that trait, but the person I talked to didn't even ask me about it.

So I think its who you see. I doubt a psychiatrist or neurologist would bother with NLD, for one thing they wouldn't get paid for it. LOL!

--des

Hi desdemona,

That's how it is here too.

But why do you say that you're a little old for this now? This is something I don't understand...people with NLD tend to mostly talk about their problems with studying. While I fit all the NLD traits to a tee, my critical problem is in the social non-verbal area, and at my age it's not irrelevant, on the contrary, it's very accute and doesn't let me live normally... So would you say your main problem is not in the nonverbal cues from society?

I wouldn't even consider it to be a severe diagnosis or anything.

I have it for instance, and I can appear to be extremely normal. I'm actually naturally social and outgoing, I have an extremely good fashion sense, and I'm outstanding in subjects, such as language arts. I've also never had any problems with eye contact or anything. In fact, everyone's always said I have excellent eye contact. And I know unlike most people with NLD, I have very nice handwriting.

However, I can't recognize faces well at all, I'm terrible at math, and I do get the obsessions.

But I like the obsessions because they give me a lot of happy memories to look back on. And usually everyone else around me gets into whatever I like, too, so it's never been a bad situation, like being isolated or anyhting like that.

Oh gee, no my main problems were social. I have math disabilty (or maybe wasn't taught visually enough), but my problems are all things I see here. It's just that at my great age, I have accepted my disability and live in NM where it I think people are more accepting. My friends, and I do have them now, all accept me for how I am. I don't think any of them are NT.

I don't care much about trying to get a dx at my age. I have a job and so on. So there is no reason that I would need this. If I need some kind of "cover" I just talk about ld or maybe ADD, as I have been dxed as having that as well (though at the time it was called "Minimal Brain Dysfunction" go Google that one for a blast from the past!).

Maybe if I were younger I would worry about what it was called. I did pursue this at one time, but I had sort of snag (a very long story).

I would also say that I have learned stuff that makes my life easier. It took me a LONG time. But over time I have learned things like faking eye contact and so on. I love my obsessions, etc.


--des

i was diagnosed last year with nvld and the psychiatrist said i exhibit features of AS, but not the whole shebang. i can be really awkward in social situations but thank goodness, my present work does not entail a lot of socializing. (i am around people a lot and talk to them, but on my own terms and there are set of rules to follow). i had terrible time socializing in my teens and was terrible at math, but pretty good in the language area. if i am thrown out of my comfort zone, i'm afraid i'll have a breakdown.

I would say there's overlap in symptoms but having one doesn't imply having the other. I'm diagnosed PDD-NOS but I have most of the AS traits and little of the NVLD traits. In fact math and science are my strong areas. I can write articulately but I've always had severe executive function problems when it comes to certain types of writing. In school I struggled a lot with completing writing assignments on time. I can write well but I'm sometimes slow as molasses when it comes to getting my thoughts down on paper.