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timeisdead
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07 Jun 2009, 9:44 pm

I'm a libertarian.



Orwell
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07 Jun 2009, 9:47 pm

I have libertarian leanings, even if I cannot support the US Libertarian Party.


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timeisdead
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07 Jun 2009, 9:49 pm

Orwell wrote:
I have libertarian leanings, even if I cannot support the US Libertarian Party.

Do you consider yourself an independent?



MattShizzle
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07 Jun 2009, 9:50 pm

I'm not. I usually agree with them on most social issues (except gun control) but disagree with them in the strongest possible terms on economic issues. Especially the extremist ones that think even roads and such should be private. I'm a very far left Socialist.



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07 Jun 2009, 9:56 pm

timeisdead wrote:
Do you consider yourself an independent?

I do not align myself with any political party, so I suppose I am an independent. However I am likely to grow less active in terms of real action, so perhaps apolitical would be a better term than independent.


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ruveyn
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07 Jun 2009, 10:18 pm

I am a libertarian to the extent that I believe government should have dominion where a monopoly of force is required, as in maintaining an armed force. I think we should have as little government as possible that is consistent with peace and order in the society.

I am definitely against government run schools. Schooling is the responsibility of parents or other care givers and guardians. It is not a proper function of the State.

Diet and personal habits are also properly in the domain of the State except insofar as safety is concerned. I think there should be laws against driving intoxicated or impaired because it imposes danger and hazard on second parties. I believe in laws against reckless endangerment and criminal negligence.

I properly functioning government should not cost more than ten cents on the dollar. The government is there to protect life and property from criminal aggression and fraud, or reckless endangerment. It is not there to "help" the poor.

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timeisdead
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07 Jun 2009, 10:21 pm

Quote:
I am definitely against government run schools. Schooling is the responsibility of parents or other care givers and guardians. It is not a proper function of the State.

How much should schooling cost each child in your opinion? In my opinion, every child should have the opportunity to attend school. An intelligent child born to impoverished parents still deserves a chance. I believe in limited state involvement, an abolished income tax, and an end to social security, but with a minority of services publicized.



vibratetogether
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07 Jun 2009, 11:45 pm

My politics have layers.

No money>Anarcho-conservatism>Libertarianism>Everything else

Matt, I expect you don't really understand Anarcho-conservatism. Very few people do. I admit it can be a little offputting hearing it in sound byte form, but when you dive in, they are some crazy smart people.



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07 Jun 2009, 11:57 pm

vibratetogether wrote:
I admit it can be a little offputting hearing it in sound byte form, but when you dive in, they are some crazy smart people.

So? There are some remarkably intelligent Young-Earth Creationists, but their beliefs are still absurd.


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vibratetogether
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08 Jun 2009, 12:20 am

Orwell wrote:
vibratetogether wrote:
I admit it can be a little offputting hearing it in sound byte form, but when you dive in, they are some crazy smart people.

So? There are some remarkably intelligent Young-Earth Creationists, but their beliefs are still absurd.


Perhaps, but I really do feel that few people understand AC, because it's not very well known. What little some people know of it is generally distorted, and even I would be against their distorted view of AC. As it actually is, I see it as a vast improvement over our current system, perhaps not ideal, but a vast improvement.

I admit it's a bit like socialism though, in that there needs to be some fundamental changes in the human character for it to work. I think it would be doable in a matter of a couple generations, but of course, there isn't much interest in society as a whole to make these sort of changes.

Please don't call it absurd though, and definitely don't compare it to YECs, the level of thought put into AC is actually pretty astounding if you really get into reading about it.

This is a pretty good starter FAQ. Link



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08 Jun 2009, 12:22 am

Orwell wrote:
vibratetogether wrote:
I admit it can be a little offputting hearing it in sound byte form, but when you dive in, they are some crazy smart people.

So? There are some remarkably intelligent Young-Earth Creationists, but their beliefs are still absurd.

Actually, just about any belief has a crazy smart person that believes it I'd bet. The earth is flat? Sure, probably some genius out there who swears it up and down to be true and suppressed by the round-earth media! A rather extreme argument, but it is sort of funny and sad that the world works that way.



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08 Jun 2009, 12:35 am

vibratetogether wrote:
Perhaps, but I really do feel that few people understand AC, because it's not very well known. What little some people know of it is generally distorted, and even I would be against their distorted view of AC. As it actually is, I see it as a vast improvement over our current system, perhaps not ideal, but a vast improvement.

I admit it's a bit like socialism though, in that there needs to be some fundamental changes in the human character for it to work. I think it would be doable in a matter of a couple generations, but of course, there isn't much interest in society as a whole to make these sort of changes.

Please don't call it absurd though, and definitely don't compare it to YECs, the level of thought put into AC is actually pretty astounding if you really get into reading about it.

This is a pretty good starter FAQ. Link

Well, the issue is that if fundamental changes in the human character are necessary, then something does not seem very likely to work out. If only cultural changes are necessary but the basic sociological and economic mechanisms of society work just as well or close to as well or better then there does not seem to be a problem.

The attempts to rationalize YEC is pretty astounding as well if you really get into reading about it. I mean, the extremes they go to in order to promote the idea.

In any case, I am not sure the FAQ impresses me that much.



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08 Jun 2009, 12:37 am

In any case, I would probably side somewhat with libertarian-ish anarchism.



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08 Jun 2009, 12:39 am

VT: I did not mean to put down your views or call them absurd. I was just pointing out that the existence of smart people who hold those views don't mean much, because you can find smart people who support any idea. That doesn't mean AC is comparable to young-earth creationism in its level of intellectual rigour, just that an idea needs to be judged on its own merits rather than based on its endorsements.


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Awesomelyglorious
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08 Jun 2009, 12:59 am

Orwell wrote:
rigour

Stop being British Orwell. Show your American pride and fighting spirit!

In any case, small question on your hierarchy of political values vibratetogether

Quote:
No money>Anarcho-conservatism>Libertarianism>Everything else


How does the "no money" thing mesh with all of the other categories? I mean, your link was to anarcho-capitalism, which usually depends heavily on a moneyed society. Libertarianism tends to also uphold a moneyed society as well, but you want to get rid of money? I don't see how that blends together or how a no money society *could* work given the need for human labor to be converted to a universal store of value so that way human freedom to consume according to wants could be preserved.