Psychiatric drugs are inferior to chemical supplements

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Perambulator
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26 Jun 2009, 8:26 pm

Why aren't more people talking about this? I've been reading a book called Foods for Moods by a doctor who's not a corporate tool. He suggests which foods to regularly eat to get the chemicals the brain needs for pleasure and to regulate mood in other ways. But he also makes the point that diet doesn't always work. Sometimes people he sees who have been on anti-depressants never had a great diet and changing that alone made them fine. But other times he found he made reasonable success by prescribing people the chemicals he realised they needed in the foods directly. Whether those chemicals be tyrosine, lysine or whatever.

Anyone thought about this? See this news page about Jim Carrey - he used to take anti-depressants and is on chemical supplements now.

http://www.usmagazine.com/news/jim-care ... he-problem



monty
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26 Jun 2009, 10:54 pm

Don't forget about the studies that suggest that regular exercise is as effective as SRRIs for mild or moderate depression.

Yes, there a lot of things that could help people, but are not pushed by the medical establishment because of the rules of the game. Most of these supplements have not gone through the $500 million testing gauntlet to become 'prescription' medicine, therefore, they cannot be prescribed and insurance companies do not have to pay for them. If someone does get suicidal, the doctor is generally better off if he has done what every other doctor does and simply writes a prescription for prozac - then he is providing the 'standard of care' that the medical profession believes is most appropriate. And many patients think they are being ignored if the doctor tells them to exercise, get sunshine and take supplements.



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27 Jun 2009, 2:18 am

ya, because new age psychobabble is SOOOO much more reliable then a couple thousand years of established science


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makuranososhi
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27 Jun 2009, 2:55 am

cognito wrote:
ya, because new age psychobabble is SOOOO much more reliable then a couple thousand years of established science


First, the 'couple thousand years of established science' were also marred by centuries of religious and political revision and exclusion where entire concepts were completely offbase because of adherence to more 'classic' thinkers and theories that fell within the comfortable parameters of existing 'knowledge'. Second, nutrition isn't new age psychobabble - I'd be more inclined to see your response differently if it had been assured that this was a cure-all for everyone, but that does not appear to be the case as the OP states clearly that it works for some, no effect on others. Remember that much of Eastern medicine runs parallel in terms of timeline to Western, but with a different measure of efficacy and standard of proof. If nothing else, it shows that believing in one's treatment may have as much to with getting better as the treatment itself does.


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monty
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27 Jun 2009, 10:52 am

cognito wrote:
ya, because new age psychobabble is SOOOO much more reliable then a couple thousand years of established science


Who said anything about new age psychobabble? The idea that exercise or fish oil or B-vitamins can help with depression has nothing to do with new ageiness. The fact that a deficiency of n-3 fats can induce depression is simple science, as is the fact that such deficiencies are quite common.

And what sort of crack are you puffing on that makes you speak of 'a couple thousand years of established science'? Modern neurobiology started half a century ago; most of the research on SSRIs is 10-25 years old, and was conducted by the companies doing the selling. I do believe that SSRIs and other psychiatric drugs can sometimes benefit people, but they are less effective than most people believe, and there is evidence that mild or moderately depressed people do as well (or better) with non-pharmacological treatments.

Here is a small slice of the literature showing the relationship between omega-3 fats (EPA, DHA, etc) and cognition.


Quote:
Biological mechanism of antidepressant effect of omega-3 fatty acids: how does fish oil act as a 'mind-body interface'?
Neurosignals. 2009;17(2):144-52. Epub 2009 Feb 4.

Depression, suicide and deficiencies of omega-3 essential fatty acids in modern diets.
World Rev Nutr Diet. 2009;99:17-30. Epub 2009 Jan 9. Review.

Ethyl-eicosapentaenoic acid {from fish oil} for the treatment of psychological distress and depressive symptoms in middle-aged women: a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized clinical trial.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Feb;89(2):641-51. Epub 2008 Dec 30.

Deficits in docosahexaenoic acid and associated elevations in the metabolism of arachidonic acid and saturated fatty acids in the postmortem orbitofrontal cortex of patients with bipolar disorder.
Psychiatry Res. 2008 Sep 30;160(3):285-99. Epub 2008 Aug 20.

Depression, diabetes and metabolic-nutritional factors in elderly Hispanics.
Fitten LJ, Ortiz F, Fairbanks L, Rosenthal M, Cole GN, Nourhashemi F, Sanchez MA.
J Nutr Health Aging. 2008 Nov;12(9):634-40.

Investigating the inflammatory phenotype of major depression: focus on cytokines and polyunsaturated fatty acids.
J Psychiatr Res. 2009 Jan;43(4):471-6. Epub 2008 Jul 21.

Dietary lipids and geriatric depression scale score among elders: the EPIC-Greece cohort.
J Psychiatr Res. 2009 May;43(8):763-9. Epub 2008 Oct 25.

Decreased brain docosahexaenoic acid content produces neurobiological effects associated with depression: Interactions with reproductive status in female rats.
Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2008 Oct;33(9):1279-92. Epub 2008 Aug 15.



earthdweller
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27 Jun 2009, 12:26 pm

I agree that excercise can work. For me, it means just a simple walk to the grocery store or gas station near where I live that sets my mind on something almost on a daily basis.

When you are talking about aspergers, our lives often times or maybe most of the time is influenced by the demands of society. This can provoke anxiety or depression etc. This is what people mean when they are antagonist of popular medicine.

Sometimes I have taken melatonin or had chamamoile (at first didn't think it worked but later on used it as concentrated form) but only because of the circumstances of my life and not because of some kind of disorder that is promoted mostly by the drug companies who want you to take their products on a day to day basis which can build some toxicity in the body etc. I do not beleive in cures but these popular medicines are not cures anyways, they are recommended on a day to day basis.