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Strange
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10 Jul 2009, 12:24 pm

seebert wrote:
While I *suspect* that AS is actually an evolutionary response to new media forms in the past century with many potential causes, and I suspect that in the long run AS will be seen as "normal", I do have a tendency to agree with you. We can't gain recognition without being a part of the ADA, without disrespecting other "invisible mental disabilities".


Interesting idea. It's true that what is considered normal vary with time and culture.

I observe that in science-fiction litterature, characters with AS traits seems more and more common. Maybe because writer recognise that aspies are a significative part of their readers.



Magneto
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10 Jul 2009, 12:30 pm

Surely if a disability is "a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities"., what is or isn't a disability would depend on what is or isn't a major life activitity? Which in turn vary according to culture...



seebert
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10 Jul 2009, 12:46 pm

Strange wrote:
seebert wrote:
While I *suspect* that AS is actually an evolutionary response to new media forms in the past century with many potential causes, and I suspect that in the long run AS will be seen as "normal", I do have a tendency to agree with you. We can't gain recognition without being a part of the ADA, without disrespecting other "invisible mental disabilities".


Interesting idea. It's true that what is considered normal vary with time and culture.

I observe that in science-fiction litterature, characters with AS traits seems more and more common. Maybe because writer recognise that aspies are a significative part of their readers.


Also, going back in history- in times of low literacy rates, people with AS traits were highly prized as scribes and thinkers.



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10 Jul 2009, 1:55 pm

seebert wrote:
Strange wrote:
seebert wrote:
While I *suspect* that AS is actually an evolutionary response to new media forms in the past century with many potential causes, and I suspect that in the long run AS will be seen as "normal", I do have a tendency to agree with you. We can't gain recognition without being a part of the ADA, without disrespecting other "invisible mental disabilities".


Interesting idea. It's true that what is considered normal vary with time and culture.

I observe that in science-fiction litterature, characters with AS traits seems more and more common. Maybe because writer recognise that aspies are a significative part of their readers.


Also, going back in history- in times of low literacy rates, people with AS traits were highly prized as scribes and thinkers.


Or as prized craftsmen I guess



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10 Jul 2009, 2:59 pm

Strange wrote:
seebert wrote:
While I *suspect* that AS is actually an evolutionary response to new media forms in the past century with many potential causes, and I suspect that in the long run AS will be seen as "normal", I do have a tendency to agree with you. We can't gain recognition without being a part of the ADA, without disrespecting other "invisible mental disabilities".


Interesting idea. It's true that what is considered normal vary with time and culture.

I observe that in science-fiction litterature, characters with AS traits seems more and more common. Maybe because writer recognise that aspies are a significative part of their readers.
Okay, if you want to go the "evolutionary step" route, but remember that "evolution" is not a process of becoming "better". It's a process of becoming more adapted. Look at the different races. Up north and down south on the globe, you have people with long noses and white skin, so the air gets warmed before it hits their lungs and the sun can help them make as much Vitamin D as possible. Near the equator, you get people with short noses and dark skin, to protect it from getting damaged by the the brighter sunlight. In the regions where malaria is common, you get lots of sickle-cell trait, which gives natural resistance to malaria. People who drank milk--the groups which herded sheep, cows, and goats--tended to select for those who had genetics that let them process lactose.

That's natural selection. None of those groups of people are superior to any other. They're simply more adapted to their environments. If you think that in the future we will select for autistic genetics because autistic minds are more compatible with technology, then you will have to take into account that "better adaptation" has nothing to do with "superior". Actually, look on that list again: Sickle-cell trait, doubled up, becomes sickle-cell anemia, which is a life-long disability and can be deadly. Autism isn't nearly Mendelian like that, but the same thing can apply. If in exchange for being resistant to malaria, a population can afford to lose people to sickle-cell anemia, then a similar situation with autism might be that a population benefits from autistic individuals at the expense of the lower probability of reproduction among autistic people, and the inability of some autistic people to work. Some organism replacing some other organism is not a good thing, nor a bad thing. The "next step" in evolution is neutral. It just is. You might as well ask whether gravity is a good thing, and whether objects that have come to rest are better than objects still falling through the air.

Incidentally, I do not think that in the future we will select for autism, specifically. I do think we will select for neurodiversity as the world becomes increasingly specialized. The new eugenics movement sparked by genetic testing and abortion may interfere with this trend, though eventually I think even that would be overwhelmed; if a certain trait was beneficial, and 100% of those people weren't prevented from reproducing, it would eventually become widespread despite attempts to stop it.


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10 Jul 2009, 6:32 pm

Koldune wrote:
Almandite wrote:
… I remember every social interaction I've ever messed up--and I've messed up a lot.


I've been there a lot. My youth memories seem sometimes to be one long string of embarrassments, ones I keep having to get over after reliving.

.


Exactly the same here...

I go rigid and have to restrain myself from self harming when I think of most things I've done around other people..


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10 Jul 2009, 6:32 pm

Koldune wrote:
Almandite wrote:
… I remember every social interaction I've ever messed up--and I've messed up a lot.


I've been there a lot. My youth memories seem sometimes to be one long string of embarrassments, ones I keep having to get over after reliving.

.


Exactly the same here...

I go rigid and have to restrain myself from self harming when I think of most things I've done around other people..


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Crassus
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10 Jul 2009, 9:23 pm

[La Bamba Voice] In the Year Two Thousaaaaaand [/La Bamba Voice]

In the Year Two Thousand, The human chromosonal chain will be large enough to contain the traits of autism without eliminating the traits currently shifted out to make room. Excellent perception AND Theory of Mind for everybody!


[La Bamba Voice] In the Year Two Thoooooousand [/La Bamba Voice]



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10 Jul 2009, 11:24 pm

Ebonwinter wrote:
seebert wrote:
Strange wrote:
seebert wrote:
While I *suspect* that AS is actually an evolutionary response to new media forms in the past century with many potential causes, and I suspect that in the long run AS will be seen as "normal", I do have a tendency to agree with you. We can't gain recognition without being a part of the ADA, without disrespecting other "invisible mental disabilities".


Interesting idea. It's true that what is considered normal vary with time and culture.

I observe that in science-fiction litterature, characters with AS traits seems more and more common. Maybe because writer recognise that aspies are a significative part of their readers.


Also, going back in history- in times of low literacy rates, people with AS traits were highly prized as scribes and thinkers.


Or as prized craftsmen I guess


or expert needlework or weavers or basketmakers, for sure.


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seebert
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20 Jul 2009, 6:29 pm

jmr wrote:
You mean the Turning test? Not sure how you made that connection between AI and internet forums, but I understand what you mean by autistic media. Thats one of the reasons I like image/textboards like 4chan: (almost) everyone is anonymous, and when you have no established history or identity, you don't have to worry about what you say, while still being able to know that someone will read and possibly react to what you've said. Humor is a purely intellectual pleasure, which can only exist when you are free from concern, and at their best, chans are all about clever play with words and images. That's why so many popular internet memes originate there. That's my theory, anyway.

You don't have the same degree of freedom here, but it is really nice to have as much time as you need to collect your thoughts before you present them, a big advantage compared to normal social situations, where you have to interpret all kinds of information at once, something I'm not so great at.


I meant the Turing Effect- which is related to the Test only in that you need a Turing Effect media, that is, a blind terminal, to conduct the Turing Test.

And it isn't as much about freedom, as about information being stripped out. Sure, we've got all these nice emoticons on this board, but it's not the same as having the same conversation in person or over the phone where an NT would be picking up on all sorts of other emotional cues, like tone of voice and body language.



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20 Jul 2009, 7:09 pm

One should feel pride or shame in only that which is chosen.

ruveyn



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20 Jul 2009, 11:28 pm

Quote:
One should feel pride or shame in only that which is chosen.


Couldn't agree more. I don't believe in being prideful over an "accident of birth". Be it race, sexual preference, which hand you use to write, or how your brain is wired. It's what you do in life that one should feel proud or ashamed of.



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01 Oct 2014, 5:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:
One should feel pride or shame in only that which is chosen.

ruveyn


I don't agree. Are you telling me, a woman with big breasts isn't going to be proud of them even though she had no part in their formation. Just luck of the draw.

I have Aspergers and although I didn't choose to have it, it does provide some pretty cool abilities for me and I am proud of those abilities it provides.

It does also bring some really horrible, life effecting symptoms but I guess you've got to take the good with the bad - become a 'cup's half-full' kind of person and look at the positives!


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