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aneeman
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20 Jul 2009, 3:28 pm

http://www.change.org/autisticadvocacy/ ... seclusions

Hello,

For the past several years, we've advocated to end the consistent abuse and risk of violence that Autistic students as well as those with other disabilities face all too often in our nations schools. In recent months, our efforts as well as those of part of broader coalitions we are proud to be a part of, such as the Alliance for the Prevention of Restraints, Aversive Interventions and Seclusion (APRAIS) and the Justice for All Action Network (JFAAN), have yielded fruit with Congressional hearings and a recent direct meeting with top officials on the President's Domestic Policy Council. We continue to advocate in Washington for a comprehensive national law to protect our people. Yet, at the same time, this fight is a national one and our friends in the parent community and local chapters continue to fight for these protections at the state level as well.

I'm writing to ask you to help us send 1000 e-mails to the Florida Department of Education insisting that they withdraw proposed regulations that would allow the use of physical force against students in a wide variety of ways and under conditions as vague as to maintain an "orderly classroom environment". If this rule is allowed to pass, students with disabilities will be subject to continued restraint and seclusion resulting in frequent serious injury and even death.

I urge you to use our action alert to help us reach our goal of sending 1000 messages to the Florida Department of Education to tell them that the Proposed Rule on "Standards for the Use of Reasonable Force" is inappropriate and ineffective for safeguarding the rights of students with and without disabilities. You can find our action alert here at http://www.change.org/autisticadvocacy/ ... seclusions If for whatever reason you have trouble using our action alert, you can also e-mail the Florida Department of Education directly at [email protected]

Regards,
Ari Ne'eman
President
The Autistic Self Advocacy Network
http://www.autisticadvocacy.org
[email protected]
732.763.5530

------------------------------------------------
Take a look at our innovative new Public Service Announcement produced with the Dan Marino Foundation at http://www.nomyths.org

If you like what we do, help support the Autistic Self Advocacy Network by making a donation at: https://www.change.org/donation/create? ... _id=211198



wigglyspider
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21 Jul 2009, 1:53 pm

I went to a school where reasonable force was used on a regular basis to restrain out-of-control kids, sometimes including myself. The key word is reasonable. No student was ever hurt during these periods of restraint and confinement. And sometimes kids were throwing things and breaking glass, or trying to run away from the school, so just talking them out of it was not a suitable option. I think the teachers should have the option of using force to protect themselves and their other students and uphold general order in their classroom without the fear of being prosecuted for it. This rule sounds like a good idea, because it has the potential to improve awareness amongst teachers of what is appropriate force and what is not. If some teachers use an unnecessary amount of force, or put students in danger, that should be dealt with... but not by banning the use of ANY force, in my opinion.


_________________
"You gotta keep making decisions, even if they're wrong decisions, you know. If you don't make decisions, you're stuffed."
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bc_its_right
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22 Jul 2009, 11:52 am

Unfortunately, the problem with the word "reasonable" is -

it is open to interpretation and an educator may feel it is reasonable to use force for anything they deem reasonable. Schools protect the teachers that abuse children and call everything they do reasonable.

We then have Sovereign Immunity, which is claimed every time a child is hurt or dies.

Perhaps if some educators would try to understand the children, instead of adding to their frustration, then kids would not throw things and lose it. As an advocate I have taken many of the supposedly violent children into my own home and suprisingly not a one has ever had a violent episode when living with me, just with teachers on a power trip.

If you create an environment where the child does not feel safe - that is not the kid's fault and does not mean it is reasonable to use force, when the child reacts. How about being reasonable and not creating an environment where the child feels threatened and avoid much of the unnecessary violence brought on by the environments some create in our schools.

BTW, not all teachers are like this and you can usually look at a child's record and see they have a pattern with just some teachers. Good teachers are priceless.



RingRider
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22 Jul 2009, 10:44 pm

bc_its_right wrote:
Unfortunately, the problem with the word "reasonable" is -

it is open to interpretation and an educator may feel it is reasonable to use force for anything they deem reasonable. Schools protect the teachers that abuse children and call everything they do reasonable.

We then have Sovereign Immunity, which is claimed every time a child is hurt or dies.

Perhaps if some educators would try to understand the children, instead of adding to their frustration, then kids would not throw things and lose it. As an advocate I have taken many of the supposedly violent children into my own home and suprisingly not a one has ever had a violent episode when living with me, just with teachers on a power trip.

If you create an environment where the child does not feel safe - that is not the kid's fault and does not mean it is reasonable to use force, when the child reacts. How about being reasonable and not creating an environment where the child feels threatened and avoid much of the unnecessary violence brought on by the environments some create in our schools.

BTW, not all teachers are like this and you can usually look at a child's record and see they have a pattern with just some teachers. Good teachers are priceless.


I guarantee as soon as those children are out of your sight they're acting like hellions again. Just this time they know they can get away with whatever they do cause now they have some righteous to punish those wicked teachers for holding those little hellions accountable for their actions. You might come here with the allusion of protecting autistic children, but in the end you're just going to make it worse. Your ideas don't protect the autistic, they protect those that would hurt them.

People like you indirectly caused me untold suffering in school. I would get bullied around no matter what school I went to, simply because I was smaller. What happened, the bullies got coddled and loved and told it wasn't their fault. That they're weren't bad kids they just needed more love. Meanwhile I was a 12 year old kid contemplating suicide, because people like you told me not to provoke bullies, that I should be nice, that these people hurting me weren't mean people and it was all in my head. Now that I'm older I can see the failure of that type of thinking and how short sighted it is. I can also see that it gets promoted by self righteous people out to prove to the world how forward and progressive thinking they are.

You might have a nice idea but you have no clue as to who is bearing the consequences of your supposed kindness. If I come across as bitter I have good reason to. Anyone who uses the forum name "Because It's Right" sets of warning bells in my head, you're here to push a cause not be part of the community.



ChangelingGirl
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23 Jul 2009, 9:09 am

wigglyspider wrote:
I went to a school where reasonable force was used on a regular basis to restrain out-of-control kids, sometimes including myself. The key word is reasonable. No student was ever hurt during these periods of restraint and confinement. And sometimes kids were throwing things and breaking glass, or trying to run away from the school, so just talking them out of it was not a suitable option. I think the teachers should have the option of using force to protect themselves and their other students and uphold general order in their classroom without the fear of being prosecuted for it. This rule sounds like a good idea, because it has the potential to improve awareness amongst teachers of what is appropriate force and what is not. If some teachers use an unnecessary amount of force, or put students in danger, that should be dealt with... but not by banning the use of ANY force, in my opinion.


The problem is that vague regulations like this mean that a student can be restrained or secluded at the sole discretion (or rather, whim) of a teacher. Some teachers find the classroom order is endangered when a child doesn't follow directions to do his classwork, for example.

In the Netherlands, restraint and seclusion is illegal in schools and can only be used in institutions, and only a physician can decide to allow it. Even so, the staff who are executing the restraining/secluding order can still make pretty lose decisions, eg. the order says the patient can be secluded for "disrupting the group", and a nurse can decide that telling another patient to shut up (when that patient is psychotic and constantly talking to himself) is "disruptive". It's not jus thypothetical (happened in my former place). If this can be doen in mental institutions under a doctor's supervision, a lot more can be done in schools, where teachers can decide whom to restrain/seclude.



bc_its_right
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23 Jul 2009, 8:55 pm

I'm sorry you feel like that RingRider.

I will not say that I will not advocate for what I believe in, but do not presume to know my intent for joining the community.

I do not believe in bullying of any kind and that includes chldren or adults. I was also bullied, so I know what it feels like.

My son was also bullied by an educator and placed in a black box for two weeks for not telling on a friend. He was at the point of suicide. An honor student called me to tell me because she grew concerned for my son. I was successful in fighting for his rights and I made a promise when he graduated to advocate for the rights of other students that could/would not speak for themselves. I have spent 9 years volunteering to go into schools and advocate for the rights of children that are bullied, so please do not make assumptions about me and who I am.

I only recently realized that I may have Aspergers too.

I am sorry you were bullied, but I most definately did not cause it.

I do respect your right to your opinions if you think people like me do damage.

I can tell you that the kids I have worked with don't see it that way. Many of those kids others thought were lost causes are now in college or run a business, are married, have children and many started in the juvenile justice center.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.



RingRider
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23 Jul 2009, 9:10 pm

My apologies.

All I know as a child people were more concerned about helping the bullies than people like myself. I read numerous newspaper articles about young kids that socially resembled myself committing suicide and everybody acting like it was such a mystery.

The rhetoric that let bullies get away with damn near murder sounded a great deal like what yours does. I never saw a decrease in bullying, if anything it increased. If you can actually decrease bullying than alright, but my experience points to a much different result.



bc_its_right
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24 Jul 2009, 1:57 pm

No problem.

Apology accepted.

I understand.