Am I a racist?

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very nice discussions

i did not fully complete my sentence. i did not mean to say "they were not meant for modern living" because "they have an angry mindset". they are 2 separate observations.

they can not handle the rich nutrients of the western way of life because they were nomads who scratched grubs out of the dirt to eat before we built mcdonald's restaurants around them.
given a cheese burger, they get many days worth of energy in a few swallows and then they lay back for days and get drunk. they have a very low tolerance to alcohol, and it is a substance that they should not imbibe. we can not discriminate so if we can have it, then so can they. but they can not handle it. they are not made for modern living i still think.

they get angry because they are envious of how we fit into our world that they think they can not fit into. it is all in their minds. they think we look down on them. i do not look "down" on them.

they look at me when i am passing through "redfern" (an aboriginal hot spot in the inner city that i drive through sometimes to go to a client site) as though they want to kill me. they have hate in their minds i am sure. they yell "bloody smug white fella!! !! think ya better'n us huh white fella?" from a distance but the lights turn green and i proceed away from the area before they mount my car in rage. i would not drive through there at night.



deary me! you accuse me of being racist and you go on to say that aborigine children that are given the advantage of a "white" upbringing are not "broadly" distinguishable from their caucasian counterparts (therefore they are valid people).
but i suppose you said it as an example of how aborigines are not primitive if taught the white way.




it is a very imaginatively pertinent analogy you wrote.
but...
there is only 20 million people in australia. if they all stood abreast and shoulder to shoulder in lines and columns with 1 meter separation between each person, we would cover 4.47 km in a square formation that covers less than 20 km^2 . that is like less than 1 mm devoted to them in my house.
i understand that if you build a road over a scent trail used by a rare species that it may be a factor in their extinction.

i also understand that in evolution that the fittest species is the survivor and progenitor.
how long could australia remain unclaimed by people with superior technology.
not that long. only 60,000 years. i am not saying that this is the way i would choose to design evolution, but it is nonetheless real.






no i was not suggesting that.
i was suggesting that they are attracted to western lifestyle commodities. they do not want to go "walkabout" anymore when they have a mcdonalds and a booze shop nearby and a car to sleep in.
they are simply addicted to things that their physiologies are not designed to accept. is it our fault that we can not prevent them from having all we have? should we treat them like animals and say what their diets and other intakes must be?



yes they would beg for our return and that is why they hate us, but they also cannot live without us now.
evolution is to blame for that and not me.

it is like a petri dish. the more successful moulds will eventually invade the areas where more primitive and "unarmed" species inhabit.
not my fault.





well i also said we would take all the rubble with us. there would be no trace of us. we would leave austalia as it was in 1769. (it may take a while for the trees to regrow in the metropolitan area).

then they would be free to hunt their grubs and live the life their ancestors lived.
would they retread their walking tracks and wear them in to be used like the trails in days of old.....??? i think it is a slim possibility.


well i do not consider any aborigines lives to be any less valuable in the universe than mine.

i just state what i see, and aborigines are not doing well.





well of course they do! you are prejudiced because of my manner and you can not see that i will struggle to help anyone if they are in danger.

but if they are fat and disgruntled and lazy and uncouth i am not so interested.

i am an animal lover, and even if i was to relegate aborigines to the level of the "missing link", then i would still care for them because i like animals.
but i do not think of them in that way at all.

i do not care for things that try to steal my stuff however.
i am fair towards aborigines.

i did not steal their land. i just bought land that someone else stole i guess.

Do you fit into your world?
Does anybody with an ASD fit?
I don't get how you can say how someone else is jealous that you fit into your world..

Actually, I did not, and further, I had not even thought as much in the privacy of my own head…..until I read this post I am replying to now. Frankly, you’ve now made it very difficult to avoid such a conclusion.


I referred to being raised by white people, and you have characterized that as an advantage. I referred to being broadly indistinguishable behaviorally from other people raised in similar circumstances, and from this you construe some nonsense about some people being “valid” or some such hocky. This is all your own work. If on hearing “raised by white folk” you think advantaged, then maybe you are a racist. If on hearing “not broadly distinguishable in behavior from some group comprised of white people of some description”, and from this you construe “therefore are valid people”, then it might very well be true that you are racist. It’s actually rather difficult to understand how else you arrived at such characterizations.

People who are not racist usually do not interpret “raised by white people” as asserting an advantage, nor do non racist people usually interpret behavioral similarity to white children as being therefore valid (people). If you are not racist, these are very odd interpretations and assumptions on your part….to say the least.

Actually it is the standard means of excluding the possibility of biological rather than social influences in determining causal pathways to behavior. If the reason that Aboriginal Australians have poor outcomes in modern Australia, disproportionately to other ethnic groups, were anything to do with how they are made rather than socialization and environmental influences, then we would expect to see the same poor outcomes regardless of things such as the environment in which they were socialized and by which they are influenced. That outcomes differ in accordance with social and environmental factors demonstrates conclusively that biological/”racial” explanations simply cannot be made to fit.


None of which is relevant to notions of possession. It does not matter if my neighbour has much more than they need and would not go without were I to steal some of their stuff. It’s their stuff and stealing it is morally wrong and it would not be unreasonable for my neighbours to be quite angry with me if I stole their possessions.


Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue. You were referring to moral issues claiming they have enough fertile land to wander in, now you are moving the goal posts to “well evolution gave them the short end of the stick but I did not design evolution”. None of this indicates a sense of fairness, but rather the kind of rationalization processes people indulge in when they have a judgmental opinion and are determined they can make the facts fit.


Which is neither here nor there racially. The biological propensities of humans are such that many of the “trappings’ of industralised modernity are highly attractive to humans, which is quite different from saying these things are necessarily healthy for humans, or easy to extricate oneself from a dependence on.


Well there you would be wrong. Some do not want to go walk about, some do. Just like people of other ethnicities, Aboriginal Australians are not a hive mind entity, and manifest extensive individual variation.

Are you able to consider this issue without an “us or them must be blamed" mentality?
But if you must blame someone, these people did not come to your ancestor’s home and make this mess did they? Your ancestors came to their land, treated these peoples’ ancestors just like animals, evicted them from lands as and when they chose, and enforced their own world order on these people and their ancestors. If you want to play the blame game, it’s clearly not the Aboriginal Australians who instigated this mess is it?


Evolution is not to blame for this mess. The Aboriginal Australians are not to blame for this mess. I start to wonder if this is not some “white anti guilt” thing whereby you lack the capacity to accept the facts about this situation without having to point a finger of blame which you do not want pointed at you. Hence this blame the victims mentality. Could it not be possible that the problems and issues being discussed are not the fault of Aboriginal Australians and also not your fault personally?

It is nothing like a petrie dish and frankly your understanding of evolution is less than stellar. What has the extent to which a mold is primitive got to do with anything? Primitive and less fit are not the same thing.
But again, you return to its not your fault, as though this is somehow relevant. It seems you will not be fair and balanced because in your mind if they are not to blame for poor outcomes then you are and you do not want to be. It seems to me that a fair and balanced approach to these particular people is not even a consideration to you; rather your priority is to “prove” that you personally are not to blame, which all seems very silly and non sequitor to me.
Er, you are not too clued up on Australian ecology either then? If you actually have a plan that could remove even so much as the introduced pests, you could be a very rich, famous and celebrated person. Heck if you could just knock off the rabbits or the cane toads, you’ll be a true blue fair dinkum Aussie hero. Good luck with that.

You have failed to elaborate how you imagine these people will be magically endowed with the necessary knowledge and skills (as possessed by their ancestors) by this departure.

Looks to me like you do not just state what you see, but rather you state whatever will reconcile their situation with a need to blame someone who is not you. Hardly a foundation for a fair, factual or reasonable consideration of the complex issues involved. Playing the blame game is rarely conducive to fair appraisal.



Prejudiced for or against what? And what about your manner precisely is supposed to have caused this prejudice? Might you have a tendency to interpret challenges to your point of view as being challenges to your person? They are not the same thing at all.

Charming.

I suspect at least some Aboriginal Australians feel the same way about their ancestor’s stuff….say for instance Australia itself.

I do not see this fairness in your discussion of these people and issues concerning them. You seem more concerned with repeatedly claiming you are not to blame (even though I see no hint that anyone in this thread was suggesting you were personally to blame for anything except perhaps your own opinions), than with being fair or balanced.

Aha, back to you not being personally to blame. Well obviously that proves how primitively angry these people are, not to mention drunk and fat on McDonalds, and probably uncouth too. Nothing racist about that b9?

I can relate to finding people to be quite similar sometimes who come from the same country or culture. I never noticed the OPs claims though.. I have met latin american girls and I have noticed them to be either devout catholic.. perhaps a biased sample. My brother is dating a girl from Puerto Rico and she is quiet, a neatness-fanatic, and a scientist.

You can thank your honky white liberal government for the food stamps and other welfare give away programs. They are and were a political ploy to buy votes. Don't blame the victim; blame the victimizer. The entire Liberal Modality is a political ploy. That is what happens when you have Democracy. Isn't Democracy wonderful? Two cheers for Democracy!

As to the rest you are in a state of cultural dissonance with your neighbors. If you don't like the neighborhood, then move.

ruveyn

Righto, ruveyn. If they can't find a job, let'em starve to death. Better yet, atom bomb them.

"racist" is such a strong word with such negative connotations. It shouldn't be so, because it's undeniable that different cultures have different values. You would be a racist, but not a bad person. All your arguements are perfectly valid & well founded.

Nukes cost millions of dollars. Starvation is free. If the Miserable of the Earth arise in rebellion, use machine guns. it is cheaper. Domestic Tranquility is no more than a pull on the trigger away.

Give a hungry man a fish, you have fed him for today.
Let him starve to death and you can forget about him forever.

ruveyn

But a lot of hungry people die and rot and cause plagues that infect rats and all the upright smug citizens will soon get sick and die. Better to chop them up and grind them to hamburger for the wealthier people to enjoy.

Life is a b***h. O.K. Let us fund soup kitchens and bread lines for the Miserable of the Earth. Jonathan Swift proposed even a better solution. See -A Modest Proposal-.

ruveyn

I am well aware of his "modest proposal" but it is quite revealing that you accept that as a viable solution.

I never said it was viable. I implied that it is more interesting than anything proposed by the liberals. I prefer simplicity, transparency, and directness. And a total lack of guilt. That is important. Liberals whine and apologize too much. Except for Michael Moore. He just farts in public. And Botox Babe, Nancy Pelosi. She is direct and despicable.

ruveyn

It's a gross error to confuse simplicity with simple mindedness smeared with vicious contempt.

Contempt is inherently vicious. Which is why contempt and schandenfreude are hobbies of mine.

Games I love to play: contempt, contumely, low regard, scorn, insult, ill wishing and joy in the failure and destruction of my enemies.

If I cannot fully love those whom I should love, I will despise those whom I should despise. The ability to love is a gift which fortunately I did not receive. Thus I am not burdened with guilt.

You are older than I am and you should know by this time, good deeds often go unrequited; pity paralyzes and compassion rots resolve. The correct state for the human animal is Lean and Mean. We are primates with the dentation of meat eaters. We have the stereoscopic vision of predators and we have well developed feet wherewith to kick a**.

ruveyn

Perhaps you have the few years left that I have utilized to be aware that good deeds are sufficient unto themselves and should not be measured by any standards but personal satisfaction. I have had some terrible things happen to myself and my family and yet my experiences have added to my understanding as to why things happen and let me accept and live with them and do not distill into the vile bitter swamp in which you seem to struggle to exist.