Mind= blown.
28 Sep 2009, 7:18 am
Everything in our solar system, so far as we know, came from an unknown number of supernova explosions (We believe this because that is the only place where the heavier elements can be synthesized). Thus we are all quite literally, stardust. The dust from an unknown number of stars has assembled itself into us and in doing so, has gained the ability to question itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, that means that humans are the universe questioning itself. (for those of you who don't understand, I am not talking about it willfully making us to question itself, I'm talking about a bunch of random stuff happening that just happened to make life on earth, and then humans)
Edit: because people are getting way to specific and completely missing the point.
Last edited by Atomsk on 28 Sep 2009, 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
28 Sep 2009, 7:43 am
Atomsk wrote:
Everything in our solar system, so far as we know, came from a single supernova explosion (We believe this because that is the only place where the heavier elements can be synthesized). Thus we are all quite literally, stardust. The dust from a single star has assembled itself into us and in doing so, has gained the ability to question itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
In all probability the constituent elements of our being came from several if not many stellar reactions since the first atoms were probably hydrogen or helium.
And here I though you would give the intellectual equivalent to the infamous Clinton escapade.
28 Sep 2009, 7:57 am
Sand wrote:
Atomsk wrote:
Everything in our solar system, so far as we know, came from a single supernova explosion (We believe this because that is the only place where the heavier elements can be synthesized). Thus we are all quite literally, stardust. The dust from a single star has assembled itself into us and in doing so, has gained the ability to question itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
In all probability the constituent elements of our being came from several if not many stellar reactions since the first atoms were probably hydrogen or helium.
And here I though you would give the intellectual equivalent to the infamous Clinton escapade.
I was just trying to keep things simple in my above post. The endpoint is the same, regardless of how many stellar reactions have happened to form our constituent elements. We are the universe questioning itself, which means the universe can think.
28 Sep 2009, 8:16 am
Atomsk wrote:
Sand wrote:
Atomsk wrote:
Everything in our solar system, so far as we know, came from a single supernova explosion (We believe this because that is the only place where the heavier elements can be synthesized). Thus we are all quite literally, stardust. The dust from a single star has assembled itself into us and in doing so, has gained the ability to question itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
In all probability the constituent elements of our being came from several if not many stellar reactions since the first atoms were probably hydrogen or helium.
And here I though you would give the intellectual equivalent to the infamous Clinton escapade.
I was just trying to keep things simple in my above post. The endpoint is the same, regardless of how many stellar reactions have happened to form our constituent elements. We are the universe questioning itself, which means the universe can think.
I would be careful about donating capacities too universally. Stars are also made of universal stuff but I have yet to discover in myself the ability to fission.
28 Sep 2009, 9:55 am
Part of the Universe =/= The whole Universe
While small part of the universe, humans (or other sapient beings), have the ability to think, the large majority of the universe does not.
It's like claiming that I'm capable of child birth because me and my sister are from the same parents.
_________________
"Purity is for drinking water, not people" - Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
28 Sep 2009, 12:10 pm
Atomsk wrote:
Everything in our solar system, so far as we know, came from a single supernova explosion (We believe this because that is the only place where the heavier elements can be synthesized). Thus we are all quite literally, stardust. The dust from a single star has assembled itself into us and in doing so, has gained the ability to question itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
The solar system originated from a dust/gas cloud when when drawn in by gravitation produced the sun (by fusion). It is not clear that all the heavy elements in the primordial dust/gas clound came from one super nova explosion. It could have come from several.
ruveyn
28 Sep 2009, 12:21 pm
And you essentially replace every cell in your body every 7 years or so.
You should look into black holes and m-theory sometime if you really want your mind blown. Big bang "we all are made up of the same stuff" type info is old hat.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
28 Sep 2009, 12:25 pm
skafather84 wrote:
And you essentially replace every cell in your body every 7 years or so.
You should look into black holes and m-theory sometime if you really want your mind blown. Big bang "we all are made up of the same stuff" type info is old hat.
You should look into black holes and m-theory sometime if you really want your mind blown. Big bang "we all are made up of the same stuff" type info is old hat.
Well, when you work dark matter into the equation, no one knows what happens.
28 Sep 2009, 2:06 pm
Atomsk wrote:
Everything in our solar system, so far as we know, came from a single supernova explosion (We believe this because that is the only place where the heavier elements can be synthesized). Thus we are all quite literally, stardust. The dust from a single star has assembled itself into us and in doing so, has gained the ability to question itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
But since the law of conservation states from nothing comes nothing, it seems that the initial supernova explosion would naturally presuppose a pre-existing entity (or entities), which in turn would be governed by a pre-existing order.
And so even if the potential conditions for the supernova explosion existed prior to the explosion, one would have to wonder what change actually occurred at the precise time that triggered that event. In short, who set off the explosion?
_________________
Stung by the splendor of a sudden thought. ~ Robert Browning
28 Sep 2009, 2:12 pm
JetLag wrote:
Atomsk wrote:
Everything in our solar system, so far as we know, came from a single supernova explosion (We believe this because that is the only place where the heavier elements can be synthesized). Thus we are all quite literally, stardust. The dust from a single star has assembled itself into us and in doing so, has gained the ability to question itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
Therefore, since we are all part of the universe, humans are the universe questioning itself.
But since the law of conservation states from nothing comes nothing, it seems that the initial supernova explosion would naturally presuppose a pre-existing entity (or entities), which in turn would be governed by a pre-existing order.
And so even if the potential conditions for the supernova explosion existed prior to the explosion, one would have to wonder what change actually occurred at the precise time that triggered that event. In short, who set off the explosion?
Everything is.
/there is no "who" and barely even a "what".
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
28 Sep 2009, 2:15 pm
http://filer.case.edu/dts8/thelastq.htm
A few words about and from the author wrote:
The Last Question
By Isaac Asimov
Isaac Asimov was the most prolific science fiction author of all time. In fifty years he averaged a new magazine article, short story, or book every two weeks, and most of that on a manual typewriter. Asimov thought that The Last Question, first copyrighted in 1956, was his best short story ever. Even if you do not have the background in science to be familiar with all of the concepts presented here, the ending packs more impact than any other book that I've ever read. Don't read the end of the story first!
This is by far my favorite story of all those I have written.
After all, I undertook to tell several trillion years of human history in the space of a short story and I leave it to you as to how well I succeeded. I also undertook another task, but I won't tell you what that was lest l spoil the story for you.
It is a curious fact that innumerable readers have asked me if I wrote this story. They seem never to remember the title of the story or (for sure) the author, except for the vague thought it might be me. But, of course, they never forget the story itself especially the ending. The idea seems to drown out everything -- and I'm satisfied that it should.
By Isaac Asimov
Isaac Asimov was the most prolific science fiction author of all time. In fifty years he averaged a new magazine article, short story, or book every two weeks, and most of that on a manual typewriter. Asimov thought that The Last Question, first copyrighted in 1956, was his best short story ever. Even if you do not have the background in science to be familiar with all of the concepts presented here, the ending packs more impact than any other book that I've ever read. Don't read the end of the story first!
This is by far my favorite story of all those I have written.
After all, I undertook to tell several trillion years of human history in the space of a short story and I leave it to you as to how well I succeeded. I also undertook another task, but I won't tell you what that was lest l spoil the story for you.
It is a curious fact that innumerable readers have asked me if I wrote this story. They seem never to remember the title of the story or (for sure) the author, except for the vague thought it might be me. But, of course, they never forget the story itself especially the ending. The idea seems to drown out everything -- and I'm satisfied that it should.
Reading this thread made me think of this short story; I hope it stirs some thought.
M.
_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.
For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
28 Sep 2009, 10:32 pm
Henriksson wrote:
Part of the Universe =/= The whole Universe
While small part of the universe, humans (or other sapient beings), have the ability to think, the large majority of the universe does not.
It's like claiming that I'm capable of child birth because me and my sister are from the same parents.
While small part of the universe, humans (or other sapient beings), have the ability to think, the large majority of the universe does not.
It's like claiming that I'm capable of child birth because me and my sister are from the same parents.
Acutally it is nothing like that whatsoever. You don't have female reproductive organs, whereas human beings or other sentient lifeforms in the universe are in fact part of the universe, and made out of the universe. Your argument is kind of like saying that your brain is small compared to the rest of your body, therefore you must not be capable of thought.
28 Sep 2009, 10:37 pm
makuranososhi wrote:
http://filer.case.edu/dts8/thelastq.htm
Reading this thread made me think of this short story; I hope it stirs some thought.
M.
A few words about and from the author wrote:
The Last Question
By Isaac Asimov
Isaac Asimov was the most prolific science fiction author of all time. In fifty years he averaged a new magazine article, short story, or book every two weeks, and most of that on a manual typewriter. Asimov thought that The Last Question, first copyrighted in 1956, was his best short story ever. Even if you do not have the background in science to be familiar with all of the concepts presented here, the ending packs more impact than any other book that I've ever read. Don't read the end of the story first!
This is by far my favorite story of all those I have written.
After all, I undertook to tell several trillion years of human history in the space of a short story and I leave it to you as to how well I succeeded. I also undertook another task, but I won't tell you what that was lest l spoil the story for you.
It is a curious fact that innumerable readers have asked me if I wrote this story. They seem never to remember the title of the story or (for sure) the author, except for the vague thought it might be me. But, of course, they never forget the story itself especially the ending. The idea seems to drown out everything -- and I'm satisfied that it should.
By Isaac Asimov
Isaac Asimov was the most prolific science fiction author of all time. In fifty years he averaged a new magazine article, short story, or book every two weeks, and most of that on a manual typewriter. Asimov thought that The Last Question, first copyrighted in 1956, was his best short story ever. Even if you do not have the background in science to be familiar with all of the concepts presented here, the ending packs more impact than any other book that I've ever read. Don't read the end of the story first!
This is by far my favorite story of all those I have written.
After all, I undertook to tell several trillion years of human history in the space of a short story and I leave it to you as to how well I succeeded. I also undertook another task, but I won't tell you what that was lest l spoil the story for you.
It is a curious fact that innumerable readers have asked me if I wrote this story. They seem never to remember the title of the story or (for sure) the author, except for the vague thought it might be me. But, of course, they never forget the story itself especially the ending. The idea seems to drown out everything -- and I'm satisfied that it should.
Reading this thread made me think of this short story; I hope it stirs some thought.
M.
I have already read The Last Question, and I loved it.
28 Sep 2009, 11:03 pm
makuranososhi wrote:
http://filer.case.edu/dts8/thelastq.htm
Reading this thread made me think of this short story; I hope it stirs some thought.
M.
A few words about and from the author wrote:
The Last Question
By Isaac Asimov
Isaac Asimov was the most prolific science fiction author of all time. In fifty years he averaged a new magazine article, short story, or book every two weeks, and most of that on a manual typewriter. Asimov thought that The Last Question, first copyrighted in 1956, was his best short story ever. Even if you do not have the background in science to be familiar with all of the concepts presented here, the ending packs more impact than any other book that I've ever read. Don't read the end of the story first!
This is by far my favorite story of all those I have written.
After all, I undertook to tell several trillion years of human history in the space of a short story and I leave it to you as to how well I succeeded. I also undertook another task, but I won't tell you what that was lest l spoil the story for you.
It is a curious fact that innumerable readers have asked me if I wrote this story. They seem never to remember the title of the story or (for sure) the author, except for the vague thought it might be me. But, of course, they never forget the story itself especially the ending. The idea seems to drown out everything -- and I'm satisfied that it should.
By Isaac Asimov
Isaac Asimov was the most prolific science fiction author of all time. In fifty years he averaged a new magazine article, short story, or book every two weeks, and most of that on a manual typewriter. Asimov thought that The Last Question, first copyrighted in 1956, was his best short story ever. Even if you do not have the background in science to be familiar with all of the concepts presented here, the ending packs more impact than any other book that I've ever read. Don't read the end of the story first!
This is by far my favorite story of all those I have written.
After all, I undertook to tell several trillion years of human history in the space of a short story and I leave it to you as to how well I succeeded. I also undertook another task, but I won't tell you what that was lest l spoil the story for you.
It is a curious fact that innumerable readers have asked me if I wrote this story. They seem never to remember the title of the story or (for sure) the author, except for the vague thought it might be me. But, of course, they never forget the story itself especially the ending. The idea seems to drown out everything -- and I'm satisfied that it should.
Reading this thread made me think of this short story; I hope it stirs some thought.
M.
No matter the Old Testament was fabricated by minds as facile as any today but almost totally bereft of the extensive knowledge and understanding now available. It is full of wonderful very human poetry and the sense of human presence in the universe which, even today, is totally negligible in a cosmos so unimaginably huge as to dwarf mankind into non-existence. Asimov took the poetry and brought it up to date. Reality is still quite fugitive.
29 Sep 2009, 1:26 am
Atomsk wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
Part of the Universe =/= The whole Universe
While small part of the universe, humans (or other sapient beings), have the ability to think, the large majority of the universe does not.
It's like claiming that I'm capable of child birth because me and my sister are from the same parents.
While small part of the universe, humans (or other sapient beings), have the ability to think, the large majority of the universe does not.
It's like claiming that I'm capable of child birth because me and my sister are from the same parents.
Acutally it is nothing like that whatsoever. You don't have female reproductive organs, whereas human beings or other sentient lifeforms in the universe are in fact part of the universe, and made out of the universe. Your argument is kind of like saying that your brain is small compared to the rest of your body, therefore you must not be capable of thought.
Not quite, to have an "I" you must be capable of thought (I think, therefore I am), "the Universe" is a collective term that is quite different from an object's characteristics, such as consciousness and so on.
For example, a bullet is part of the Universe, but you'd be looking pretty foolish to say the Universe is capable of travelling with a velocity of 1800 m/s from this fact alone.
_________________
"Purity is for drinking water, not people" - Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
29 Sep 2009, 4:13 am
Although it seems obvious that a bunch of flying dumb rocks and exploding stars have no capability for awareness or contemplation the verdict is most often given with little consideration about the nature of thought. The process of thinking in conscious minds (or, at minimum, in my conscious mind) by constructing as accurate a mental model of my environment as possible and manipulating the model in as many ways as I can conceive in the way I assume it would function in reality. When I have finally formed a mental model that seems to be able to function in the way I desire I can copy the mental model in real material and test it. If it has problems I investigate why my mental model does not conform to reality and readjust my conceptions to reconstruct my physical model and at end, if I have gone through a series of adjustments that bring my model into function I have thought out the problem successfully. The universe is not conscious in the normal way we consider consciousness but it has rigid laws as to how matter and energy interact. The universe does not make conscious models. But it does continuously rearrange the interactions of its components which then come into various new rearrangements. In effect what conscious minds do with theoretical models the universe does with the universe itself as a model. There is no "success" or "failure" in this process as there is no preconceived end to which the universe proceeds. But, as in Darwinian evolution, certain environments permit the persistence of particular forms and the forces of nature continually manufactures new attempts to create this persistence and, of course, in the rather random approach of creating everything possible, the overwhelming number of new creations are miserable failures. Nevertheless the exceedingly minuscule successes are what we must credit for our own existence and that is a strange form of thinking without consciousness.
