Things You Would Like To See An Evolutionist Explain

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Gromit
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13 Oct 2009, 11:55 am

anna-banana wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by violence. you mean like in Saudi Arabia? Afghanistan?

More or less. Apart from laws that put women under male control, as in Saudi Arabia, there are honour killings from Turkey to Pakistan, female genital mutilation in East Africa. Less extreme, until a few decades ago a woman in Britain could only take a job if her husband agreed. Domestic violence was pretty much ignored. The law on rape was extended to sex between spouses only in the last few decades. Before then husbands were seen to have a right to sex. In Afghanistan that is still the case. They recently passed a law that a husband may starve a wife who refuses to have sex with him.

anna-banana wrote:
that's not the majority you know.

I hope it no longer is. It used to be.

anna-banana wrote:
and not really my manor.

I very much hope not.



Jono
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13 Oct 2009, 4:43 pm

0hanrahan wrote:
Jono wrote:
Incorrect. First of all, evolution is not about how life started. It only explains how life evolves and adapts to its environment. Theories about the origin of life are called abiogenesis. Microevolution is not qualitatively different from macroevolution. To say it is, is a misuse of the term. Microevolution involves small scale changes due to mutations within a species. Given enough of these changes, and over a long enough period of time, speciation can occur, i.e. a new species can appear. So the only difference between microevolution and macroevolution is that microevolution happens over only a few generations whereas macroevolution is due the accumulation of mutations over many, possible thousands, of generations over a long period of time. Also, emperical evidence overwhelmingly supports macroevolution while there is nothing that supports creation. See the following:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/


You are incorrect in your assumptions and portrayal of my statements.
You, I, and the late Pope JP2 all agree. Evolution is a valid theory but it does not explain origins.

The fact that we can delineate between Micro and macro is proof that they are both qualitatively and quantitatively different. This is not saying that Macro is not dependent on Micro.

I will be away for a few days, so don't take my lack of a response as having nothing to say :)


I'm sorry if I portrayed your statements incorrectly but I could of sworn that with your other posts, you were promoting Intelligent Design as valid. I also got the impression from your post (the one I replied to), that macroevolution is not well supported. Macroevolution is supported by the fossil record. As for my assumptions, I think it would be informative if you looked up ring species. As I understand it, a simplified explanation is this. Lets say that we have a population of three different kinds of organisms and call them A, B and C. Organism A can interbreed with organism B and thus A and B belong to the same species. Organism B can interbreed with Organism C, hence B and C belong to the same species. However, Organism A cannot interbreed with organism C. Therefore, B belongs to the same species of both A and C while at the same time A and C could otherwise be different species. The only thing that connects A and C via breeding is B. Without organism B, organisms A and C are two different species. This is what is meant by a ring species. The standard definition of a species is that populations of two different species can't interbreed to have reproductive offspring. However, as illustrated, the existence of ring species tend to complicate matters. What this also shows is what happens with enough mutations over time. Instead of three types of organisms living in different populations as illustrated above, lets assume that a similar chain exists (a much longer chain) and that the genetic difference between each organism represents a mutation that occurred as time on. Every organism in the chain with a new mutation would still be able to interbreed with its predecessor before the mutation occurred. However, assuming the original organism did not become extinct (maybe the mutations happened in a population of the original organism because of geographical isolation or whatever), it would not be able to interbreed with the final organism because the genetics have diverged too far. This is why microevolution and macroevolution cannot be delineated. In the above example, there was no specific mutation created a new species. Speciation occurred only because the accumulation of the genetic mutations in the isolated population caused that population to genetically diverge far enough that it could no longer interbreed with the original organism. That's why I said that the difference between macroevolution and microevolution is only a matter of quantity, not quality.

See the following to see that ring species do exist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species



Kaysea
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15 Oct 2009, 7:43 am

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:
I've never read a satisfactory evolutionary explanation of female sexual pleasure.

There seems to be huge reluctance to admit that for the majority of women, the greatest, if not the only sexual pleasure, comes from non-reproductive stimulation. The various convoluted arguments I've heard to 'prove' that this is nevertheless some kind of adaptation to a reproductive end don't seem logical. (They sound, in fact, a lot like guys attempting to suggest that the kind of sex they find most fun is the only 'proper' kind.)


I believe that Desmond Morris explained this in terms of a means of re-enforcing the pair bond. If I am not mistaken, his argument is that female pleasure would cause the female to be receptive at all times, thereby ensuring that male would stick around to assist with child-rearing... or something on that order.



TheOddGoat
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07 Nov 2009, 3:15 pm

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:
I've never read a satisfactory evolutionary explanation of female sexual pleasure.

There seems to be huge reluctance to admit that for the majority of women, the greatest, if not the only sexual pleasure, comes from non-reproductive stimulation. The various convoluted arguments I've heard to 'prove' that this is nevertheless some kind of adaptation to a reproductive end don't seem logical. (They sound, in fact, a lot like guys attempting to suggest that the kind of sex they find most fun is the only 'proper' kind.)


Because men can do the raping.

Basically, it doesn't matter whether or not the woman enjoys it because she can be raped by a man, that is why it is more important for a man to enjoy sex because he has the sticky out bit not the hole.

Also, this is just evidence that women don't need to enjoy sex that much for there to be survival of our species.

If they did, we just wouldn't be here.



Jono
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10 Nov 2009, 11:56 am

TheOddGoat wrote:
ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:
I've never read a satisfactory evolutionary explanation of female sexual pleasure.

There seems to be huge reluctance to admit that for the majority of women, the greatest, if not the only sexual pleasure, comes from non-reproductive stimulation. The various convoluted arguments I've heard to 'prove' that this is nevertheless some kind of adaptation to a reproductive end don't seem logical. (They sound, in fact, a lot like guys attempting to suggest that the kind of sex they find most fun is the only 'proper' kind.)


Because men can do the raping.

Basically, it doesn't matter whether or not the woman enjoys it because she can be raped by a man, that is why it is more important for a man to enjoy sex because he has the sticky out bit not the hole.

Also, this is just evidence that women don't need to enjoy sex that much for there to be survival of our species.

If they did, we just wouldn't be here.


That's not a satisfactory explanation. It doesn't explain why there is female sexual pleasure.



ChrisHitchens
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17 Nov 2009, 1:42 pm

Jono wrote:
That's not a satisfactory explanation. It doesn't explain why there is female sexual pleasure.
\

Sex isn't just for reproduction, it's also for social bonding. Female esxual pleasure most likely has to do with emotional bonding.


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17 Nov 2009, 2:09 pm

Really?

There were times when I enjoyed sex without the emotional bonding.


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17 Nov 2009, 8:19 pm

willa wrote:
To kind of compare here, when talking genetic ancestors, we compare humans to apes, which we are generally believed to be about 4-5 million years separated. When talking birds to dinosaurs, you're talking 65 million years separated.

Well, Homo sapiens sapiens is a species of great ape. Birds are technically in the same clade as dinosaurs.



Jono
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18 Nov 2009, 2:32 pm

ChrisHitchens wrote:
Jono wrote:
That's not a satisfactory explanation. It doesn't explain why there is female sexual pleasure.
\

Sex isn't just for reproduction, it's also for social bonding. Female esxual pleasure most likely has to do with emotional bonding.


I know. I think I said so much earlier on in the thread. I suppose it could also be a lot of fun too. I haven't tried it though.