What I hope comes out of the Copenhagen climate meeting

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Perambulator
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06 Dec 2009, 8:22 pm

I hope world leaders agree, based on scientific fact that fish stocks are unsustainable all over the world, to ban fishing with nets. To only allow fishing with rods on small boats.

This would provide many more jobs than the current kind of fishing. It would reduce unemployment which would make a lot of people a lot happier, even if they didn't earn much. People want a role, to feel as if they've achieved something.

On a personal level I would simply like it because I have an obsession with the ocean and boats. I would love spending hours on the sea, then coming home, taking the fish to the market, selling them fresh to the local citizens, before maybe having a drink in the dockside tavern and going home to cook a fish supper.

Does anyone else have any hopes for what will come from the Copenhagen climate meeting that relate to you?



CloudWalker
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06 Dec 2009, 8:34 pm

Banning fishing with nets seems a little extreme but I definitely agree on some world wide enforced quota. Too bad it's not on the agenda of Copenhagen or other climate meeting. Personally, I'd rather the world put its effort on fighting pollution instead of global warming or climate change or whatever name they came up next. (You don't have to guess that I'm against anthropogenic global warming)



Witch
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06 Dec 2009, 11:52 pm

If I may add, the anthropogenic stuff is crap.

I marvel at the lack of attention that the "skeptical" climate scientists receive when talking about global warming. This leads me to think that the media is over hyping the issue and the IPCC scientists are exploiting governments for more money for research. Al Gore is going at it too with his slide show, books, movie, and his carbon trading company. I wonder how much money he gets for exploiting peoples' guilt for driving their cars?

All in all, my view of the subject is that the IPCC scientists, media, and general public are that all of these people are buying into, and perpetuating, this scam.

I don't mean to irritate anybody.

Later


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jamesongerbil
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07 Dec 2009, 2:35 am

ugh, yeah, the stuff is nauseating. humans never cease to be arrogant. (me included :P ) "wah, we're so terrible, yet we have the POWER!" hehe. i love how more and more stuff is challenging the general anthropogenic opinion...



Cactus_Man
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07 Dec 2009, 2:51 am

My problem with the debate is that neither side ever seems to directly address the other, which leads me to believe that nobody really knows what the hell they're talking about. The release of those emails didn't help the hippies' case, either.

And why is it that the most prominent proponents of fighting "greenhouse gases" aren't prominent scientists, but celebrities and politicians? Why should I trust Al Gore on this issue? How does being a former VP qualify him as an expert on this? Even more importantly, if Gore genuinely believes in what he preaches, why does he pollute so much himself? (Giant, electricity-hungry mansion; private jet; etc.) The "we're all going to die if we don't do this" rhetoric isn't helping, either. Sounds more like a religious movement than a scientific one.

I think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as with the skin cancer scare and other such apparent exaggerations.



TheDoctor82
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07 Dec 2009, 3:18 am

As you mentioned Cactus Man, the whole global warming thing was recently proven a complete scam, due to some leaked documents on the internet.

apparently, it was a scam started by the feds.

Heh, those crazy feds...they know humans are just so desperate to believe in some crazy story just to feel significant...

All you really have to remember is this:

Earth's environment is the most stable environment for life as we know it to exist. It's the most stable, but it's not stable.

Please, for everything that is holy, tell me you understand that....



Perambulator
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07 Dec 2009, 6:14 am

Have any of you looked at it this way...

China is taking almost all of Europe, Australasia and Northern America's jobs by building new coal stations every month to power its unstoppable industrial factories that construct almost everything we now buy.

The rise of China has been built on burning fossil fuels because these kind of power stations are very quick and easy to build. It takes a lot more time and commitment to build hydroelectric dams, wind farms, solar panels and wave power.

If we in the first world did the same as China and built masses of fossil fuel power stations then before you know it, there would be no coal, gas or oil left. Resources are scarce. We can either all sink to China's level or negotiate a worldwide energy policy that can last more than a decade or two.



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07 Dec 2009, 6:23 am

Perambulator wrote:
Have any of you looked at it this way...

China is taking almost all of Europe, Australasia and Northern America's jobs by building new coal stations every month to power its unstoppable industrial factories that construct almost everything we now buy.

The rise of China has been built on burning fossil fuels because these kind of power stations are very quick and easy to build. It takes a lot more time and commitment to build hydroelectric dams, wind farms, solar panels and wave power.

If we in the first world did the same as China and built masses of fossil fuel power stations then before you know it, there would be no coal, gas or oil left. Resources are scarce. We can either all sink to China's level or negotiate a worldwide energy policy that can last more than a decade or two.


Technically no...China is not taking all of Europe, Australia's, and NorthAm's jobs.....socialism, apathy, and lack of innovation are doing that.

The whole "resources are scarce" thing is nothing more than propaganda being used by people who either hate Capitalism, or hate the idea of most of humanity enjoying its benefits.

Why do they appear to be succeeding? Because most humans don't have the knowledge of Capitalism to challenge them, regretfully.

Look at it this way: our politicians stand in the way of these great developments. People vote in the politicians who stand in the way of these great developments. The people are standing in the way of their own prosperity.

Y'know what else I got to add to it? This is nothing new...



Francis
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07 Dec 2009, 9:50 pm

This may sound horrible, but I don't care what comes out of the climate change meeting. As far as I am concerned, the world can fall into a polluted dismal pit. Mankind is horrible and deserves it.



Chobitsfan
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07 Dec 2009, 10:39 pm

Quote:
This may sound horrible, but I don't care what comes out of the climate change meeting. As far as I am concerned, the world can fall into a polluted dismal pit. Mankind is horrible and deserves it.


I agree we humans are nothing but dangerous mutations of Primates
who will end up destroying ourselves along with the planet.



TheDoctor82
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07 Dec 2009, 11:00 pm

Chobitsfan wrote:
Quote:
This may sound horrible, but I don't care what comes out of the climate change meeting. As far as I am concerned, the world can fall into a polluted dismal pit. Mankind is horrible and deserves it.


I agree we humans are nothing but dangerous mutations of Primates
who will end up destroying ourselves along with the planet.


It's not gonna destroy the planet.

Heh, I guess it's true...even when the truth comes out, no one does want to believe it.

What's scary is you folks--like myself--are Autistic, yet you're clinging to this like an emotionally invested NT.

the whole thing was already proved to be a federal scam.



Tollorin
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08 Dec 2009, 1:25 am

Witch wrote:
I marvel at the lack of attention that the "skeptical" climate scientists receive when talking about global warming. This leads me to think that the media is over hyping the issue and the IPCC scientists are exploiting governments for more money for research

Considering the scientific consensus on climate change, its rather the other way around. And also, if we wait to be 100% sure before to act, WE WILL NEVER ACT. There's always some doubt with scientific research.

Cactus Man wrote:
My problem with the debate is that neither side ever seems to directly address the other, which leads me to believe that nobody really knows what the hell they're talking about. The release of those emails didn't help the hippies' case, either.

And why is it that the most prominent proponents of fighting "greenhouse gases" aren't prominent scientists, but celebrities and politicians? Why should I trust Al Gore on this issue? How does being a former VP qualify him as an expert on this? Even more importantly, if Gore genuinely believes in what he preaches, why does he pollute so much himself? (Giant, electricity-hungry mansion; private jet; etc.) The "we're all going to die if we don't do this" rhetoric isn't helping, either. Sounds more like a religious movement than a scientific one.

I think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as with the skin cancer scare and other such apparent exaggerations.


TheDoctor82 wrote:
As you mentioned Cactus Man, the whole global warming thing was recently proven a complete scam, due to some leaked documents on the internet.

apparently, it was a scam started by the feds.

Heh, those crazy feds...they know humans are just so desperate to believe in some crazy story just to feel significant...

All you really have to remember is this:

Earth's environment is the most stable environment for life as we know it to exist. It's the most stable, but it's not stable.

Please, for everything that is holy, tell me you understand that....

There is thousands scientists all around the world who work daily on the topic of global warming, if this is scam that's a really big scam. In that you must also include the Inuit who witness the changes and are worried about it. It's not because a few scientists have commit a fraud that we must rejecting the work of all others, must of them been honest peoples. There is crooks everywhere after all.

The reason we see more of people like Al Gore is because that's the peoples the media choose to show. They want to show celebrities for getting audiences. He's still don't change that must scientists agree that men are the main responsable of the rise of global warming.

The verity is not in the middle in this case. So far the reality as always been worst that what's been predicted. Clearly global warming and is consequences will be the most important topic of 21th century

How can this come from the feds? Obama is only in power since one year, before him Bush had eight years of mandate and he was denying global warming. So how come can it come from the feds. Also, scientists from all over the world worry about global warming, not just the from the USA.

TheDoctor82 wrote:
The whole "resources are scarce" thing is nothing more than propaganda being used by people who either hate Capitalism, or hate the idea of most of humanity enjoying its benefits.

By what miracle the ressources will be infinite? That's don't seem very logical.

TheDoctor82 wrote:
Chobitsfan wrote:
Quote:
This may sound horrible, but I don't care what comes out of the climate change meeting. As far as I am concerned, the world can fall into a polluted dismal pit. Mankind is horrible and deserves it.


I agree we humans are nothing but dangerous mutations of Primates
who will end up destroying ourselves along with the planet.


It's not gonna destroy the planet.

Heh, I guess it's true...even when the truth comes out, no one does want to believe it.

What's scary is you folks--like myself--are Autistic, yet you're clinging to this like an emotionally invested NT.

the whole thing was already proved to be a federal scam.


I agree, that's will not destroy the planet, life will come back. What it will destroy IS US.

There can be emotional elements with the issue of global warming, but the most rational position according to the data is to act.

Really you should take a look at this: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt113548.html


(BTW, shouldn't this tread be in "Politic, Philosophy and Religion")



TheDoctor82
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08 Dec 2009, 1:47 am

Tollorin wrote:
Witch wrote:
I marvel at the lack of attention that the "skeptical" climate scientists receive when talking about global warming. This leads me to think that the media is over hyping the issue and the IPCC scientists are exploiting governments for more money for research

Considering the scientific consensus on climate change, its rather the other way around. And also, if we wait to be 100% sure before to act, WE WILL NEVER ACT. There's always some doubt with scientific research.

Cactus Man wrote:
My problem with the debate is that neither side ever seems to directly address the other, which leads me to believe that nobody really knows what the hell they're talking about. The release of those emails didn't help the hippies' case, either.

And why is it that the most prominent proponents of fighting "greenhouse gases" aren't prominent scientists, but celebrities and politicians? Why should I trust Al Gore on this issue? How does being a former VP qualify him as an expert on this? Even more importantly, if Gore genuinely believes in what he preaches, why does he pollute so much himself? (Giant, electricity-hungry mansion; private jet; etc.) The "we're all going to die if we don't do this" rhetoric isn't helping, either. Sounds more like a religious movement than a scientific one.

I think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as with the skin cancer scare and other such apparent exaggerations.


TheDoctor82 wrote:
As you mentioned Cactus Man, the whole global warming thing was recently proven a complete scam, due to some leaked documents on the internet.

apparently, it was a scam started by the feds.

Heh, those crazy feds...they know humans are just so desperate to believe in some crazy story just to feel significant...

All you really have to remember is this:

Earth's environment is the most stable environment for life as we know it to exist. It's the most stable, but it's not stable.

Please, for everything that is holy, tell me you understand that....

There is thousands scientists all around the world who work daily on the topic of global warming, if this is scam that's a really big scam. In that you must also include the Inuit who witness the changes and are worried about it. It's not because a few scientists have commit a fraud that we must rejecting the work of all others, must of them been honest peoples. There is crooks everywhere after all.

The reason we see more of people like Al Gore is because that's the peoples the media choose to show. They want to show celebrities for getting audiences. He's still don't change that must scientists agree that men are the main responsable of the rise of global warming.

The verity is not in the middle in this case. So far the reality as always been worst that what's been predicted. Clearly global warming and is consequences will be the most important topic of 21th century

How can this come from the feds? Obama is only in power since one year, before him Bush had eight years of mandate and he was denying global warming. So how come can it come from the feds. Also, scientists from all over the world worry about global warming, not just the from the USA.

TheDoctor82 wrote:
The whole "resources are scarce" thing is nothing more than propaganda being used by people who either hate Capitalism, or hate the idea of most of humanity enjoying its benefits.

By what miracle the ressources will be infinite? That's don't seem very logical.

TheDoctor82 wrote:
Chobitsfan wrote:
Quote:
This may sound horrible, but I don't care what comes out of the climate change meeting. As far as I am concerned, the world can fall into a polluted dismal pit. Mankind is horrible and deserves it.


I agree we humans are nothing but dangerous mutations of Primates
who will end up destroying ourselves along with the planet.


It's not gonna destroy the planet.

Heh, I guess it's true...even when the truth comes out, no one does want to believe it.

What's scary is you folks--like myself--are Autistic, yet you're clinging to this like an emotionally invested NT.

the whole thing was already proved to be a federal scam.


I agree, that's will not destroy the planet, life will come back. What it will destroy IS US.

There can be emotional elements with the issue of global warming, but the most rational position according to the data is to act.

Really you should take a look at this: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt113548.html


(BTW, shouldn't this tread be in "Politic, Philosophy and Religion")



I never once said that our supply was endless, by any stretch; but we're nowhere near in the dire need that it's being made out to be.

That's especially the part about propaganda. Of course, doing everything to cripple Capitalism doesn't help us find those other sources of energy, either.

It's all about convincing us to live with less. That very propaganda has gone thru many different forms: the hippies even used it for their basis of philosophy, and Communism spouted the same thing.

The argument goes back to the whole "haves and have nots" argument, which in itself is loaded with inaccuracies.

It is in fact possible that some Inuits may be seeing warmer weather, but it's called Earth has been going thru different environmental cycles since Day 1
.

It's worth noting that during the first few millions years of Earth's creation, the planet was uninhabitable.

Weather is not predictable, and if there are periods were ice will melt, there are periods where it will freeze again too.

Oh yeah, and don't forget, those "scientists" who have backed the whole theory..they want grants to continue surviving; not just to do research, but to continue living their lives.

Telling the truth isn't always that appealing to humanity, so, again, to quote Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase "everybody's got a price"



Francis
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08 Dec 2009, 6:00 pm

Quote:
What's scary is you folks--like myself--are Autistic, yet you're clinging to this like an emotionally invested NT
.

Actually, if you go back and read my post again you will see I never said I believed it. I said I don't care. If I actually researched it and looked at the data to form an educated opinion, then I would have to care about it at least at some level. But, I truly don't care at all.

I'm about as emtionally unattached to the subject as you can get. I don't care. Reading your multiple replies to the thread, it would appear you are the one who has a strong emotional attachment to the subject.



Cactus_Man
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08 Dec 2009, 6:50 pm

The thing is, assuming that the worst case scenarios are true (i.e., the UK will be underwater in 50 years... *cough*), what can we even do about it? From what I can tell, the vast majority of the pollution is coming from the major industries. I could be wrong, but I'm assuming that a private plane does more damage to the ozone layer than my car (I'm being sarcastic about the "assuming") and that installing the corkscrew-shaped bulbs all over my residence isn't going to offset the damage caused by the numerous nuclear weapons that have been detonated over the years. The power to reduce emissions ultimately lies in the hands of the industries and governments causing the pollution in the first place, but instead they're trying to pass the responsibility down to us.



ElysianDream
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08 Dec 2009, 8:31 pm

Seems like there are alot of skeptics here. When islands start disappearance, and glaciers disappear off the face of the earth in a 20 year timespan, we really should notice. I think denying it like that is just selfish. It shows you only really care about the generation you live in. Oh, so Britain will be flooded in 50 years (which does sound far-fetched, btw)? It's ok, we won't be around to deal with it.