I need to get out this rant about Wal-Mart

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There's one in Bristol.

In our little burg of population 8700, more or less, there's some things you buy there; or make a 70 mile round trip to buy; or buy online; or don't buy at all.

Walmart has such a presence in so many places and there is such a diversity of attitudes to it that it may seem different for someone to say "I got this at Walmart" than for the actually quite common thing of specifying any other store they got it at.

A Super Walmart opened here in August, replacing a rather small older store.

With the move to a Super Walmart there is now no place in town to purchase cloth by the yard - old WM store carried it, Super does not.

Apparently, some entrepreneurial local soul is going to risk starting a fabric store and see if there is enough local demand to make a business of it.
Good luck to whoever it is, this ain't the best economy for that.
But then again, maybe it is . . .

I would like to smack, I won't, but I sure would like to, smack silly people who cry, "Walmart puts local stores out of business!"

No.
They don't
You do.

You lay your money down at local stores, they survive.
You don't, they don't.

It's a shopping democracy and you voted in the winner with your wallet.

This "It's All Walmart's Fault!! !!" Bulls**t is merely a whiny child's responsibility dodging.

Walmart didn't kill the local merchant.
You did it.
And you were glad.

True. I have been saying that for a few years. Too keep stores in business, keep shopping at their stores, not Wal Mart.

Uh-oh, rant within a rant time

No way they could have done that without millions of slaves of the Church of Materialism bowing at the High Altar of Consumer Goods.

Or is that altar of Consumers' Gods? I forget.



Increasing levels of corporate taxes imposed by our government sure helped that along.

If they have not themselves done the most damage.

As have increasing levels of regulation.
According to here http://web.sba.gov/faqs/faqIndexAll.cfm?areaid=24 for a business with over 500 employees, the business can express the cost of complying with regulations (i.e. paperwork time) as over $5,000 per employee.
Meaning, you have 3000 employees, government regulation (i.e. paperwork time) costs your business $15,000,000.00, yeah, fifteen million dollars a year.

As best as I can find right now Walmart employs "more than 1.3 million in the United States"

So, by this figuring their annual cost of meeting government regulations could be expressed as $5,000, time 1,300,000 employees, equals around 6,500,000,000.
6.5 billion?
See that their sales were Wal-Mart earned $401.2 billion in revenue in 2009

If you work for Walmart, your paycheck, such as it is, comes out of that 401 billion and the government nabbed 6 billion you otherwise might have got a slice of.

Now, add to that corporate taxation at up to 39% Federal and up to 12% local.
(yes, I know the loophole game is played)

And, well, damn, it's too expensive to try to make money here, adios. "Hasta la vista, baby." I am Terminating doing business in this place.

Not directly on, but a parallel example - in 1990s a 10% "Luxury Tax" was imposed on large yachts.
Killed a bunch of people's paychecks is mainly what it accomplished.
Pretty much drove the entire industry out of the country.


Note corporate tax rates around the planet here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world


Remember, higher taxes on the corporations who make what you want to buy make more expensive the thing you want to buy: that money has to come from somewhere.

And a lot of those taxes hit smaller businesses - it ain't the "billions and billions upon billions of dollars" sized outfits, like Walmart, who employ even 2/3 of all the people working:
it is rather smaller outfits.
From http://www.america.gov/st/econ-english/2008/July/20080814223926XJyrreP0.615597.html

The main force driving Walmart is local government. Wal Mart becomes the tax collector, and with no effort, that check comes in every month. It is enough to fund local government without those tax elections, or the problems of collecting tax from hundreds of businesses.

Small town government used to be a part time job. Now it is fully funded with health care and retirement.

The growth sector of the economy has been government, and they produce nothing.

Between the big box stores and Washington, local governments do not need the people for anything.

I used to do site selection for small companies, in every town there were several people with their hand out. Larger companies pay advance fees, but if I did it in Africa I would be sent to prison here.

The people who make and enforce the law, break the law.

For the cost of taxes I can produce the same goods in Mexico. There is no import duty on materials and machines, and no duty on reimporting them to the US.

Labor is a very small part of any product, perhaps 5%, but the overall cost of production in Mexico is 33% of doing it in Texas, and most likely 20% of California.

In Mexico, if you pay the wages, the government will pay the Social Security. All comes in the payroll.

Complying with American Law, plus California Law, Social Security, unemployment, health care, takes half of the cost per employee, before Income and State taxes, then sales and property tax.

The worker gets less than 25% of what they cost.

They can tax business all they want, no one pays but the consumer. American made goods cost 500% more than imports. 400% of that goes to government.

Both workers and business are paying 75% of the gross profits to government.

That was not enough, now they are running up the national debt, and that calls for raising taxes.

Business can grow without showing a profit, make $10 two out of five years. The idea is to grow, then move out or sell out, or be plundered by the government.

Workers are not as portable, few can go out and work in the world, and still pay US taxes for eighteen months.

Workers are government slaves.

Even in the bad old days, sharecroppers were given the land, the seed, and kept half the crop. After seven years they owned the land. That was considered an opressive system.

The government has spent everything they could lay their hands on, while Greece is crumbling because the National Debt hit 6.5%, and the EU runs 3%, America is at 60% of GNP. $11 Trillion on an economy that used to be $15 Trillion.

They also have 45,000,000 War Babies just coming up saying my Social Security please. AARP and the War Babies could carry any election, so the government plan is let them, vote us out, and then you owe about $100 Trillion to each other.

Production has been moved out of the country, I would not be surprised if government retirement had a Swiss Bank account.

We are being bled dry, looted, will soon be dumped, and told it was all our fault.

There is no way the current working population can pay the Social Security of the War Babies, there were three for every retiree. Worse, near a third are in government, and do not pay into Social Security.

For two people to pay for one retired, they have to all be making $100,000 a year.

Very small business is the backbone of employment. The most jobs are created by companies that hire five or less. They are the ones getting their credit cancelled. They are also paying $5,000 per worker in complyence. After the payroll, they make enough to support the owner.

I have seen the layoffs, stores where the owners now work every day, with a few family, and they are losing money. That is the case at the Local Ace Hardware, and the other two I used to shop at are gone, three generations in business, then gone in the last year. Perhaps two dozen full time jobs gone forever.

The local better grocery, in a very good neighborhood, where houses are down 25%, and credit still sends bills, has no customers. Just to hold on everyone is paying down their debt, cutting spending, or they would lose the house. Goodwill is packed. I buy better used clothing on ebay, prices are way up. There are a lot more bidders for second hand.

I also pay fast, and I get heartfelt thank yous from some guy selling off his Carhartt construction clothes, his tools have been sold, and that Paypal from me puts food on the table.

I have been on ebay for years, we have a new class selling off household goods for survival. Between sellers we used to consider paying within a week to be fine, now lots of sales say, if you can't pay in two days, Please Don't Bid!

I lived through the 70s, 80s, and 90s, this one is much worse. Back then there were millions of short term jobs created, and when the Savings and Loan went down, banks were closed and $85,000 houses were put on the market for $12,500 with government finance. Other sectors of the economy were still working, people moved, and found work.

Congress caused the current mess, Fanny and Freddie were insured by AIG, and when housing fell it was all government paper, and the world would have fallen if they had not bailed out their paper.

Now the worthless paper is held by the Federal Reserve, and The Treasury, and worth about half of what they paid. International markets were saved, banks, but the government and people have a very large loss coming. At the low end it would push the National Debt above GNP, if that much could be sold in bonds. Then we have long term over a trillion a year in interest, plus redeeming the bonds.

Selling the foreclosed houses would drop the total market, and everyone would stop paying, if they could buy the same house for 25%. The same holds for shopping centers, office buildings, hotels.

This can be good, assets should run down, not up. The main result is less money for government, which is the only thing that could reduce it.

The main asset of very small business is local markets, and with less tax and regulation, like near none, up to $500,000 a year, no personal tax or filing under $50,000 a year, local resources can be put to work. Asset deflation, dollar inflation, we can get rich again.

The only fair tax is a small tax on assets with no deductions.

I've noticed that too but we don't have Wal-Mart in our country so I never really cared about it.

Here's something Wal-Mart-related:

http://blog.beliefnet.com/everydayethic ... -free.html

From the article:

In fact, let me share my instant message conversation tonight with the same, aforementioned friend with you. It summarizes my ambivalence quite nicely:

Me: I wish I were done working for the night - I'm writing a blog post about Wal-Mart
Friend: I hate Wal-Mart, but I shop there every single week.
Me: Agreed.
Me: .....I wish I could just eat the ice cream I bought at Wal-Mart and read a book.

I don't go there much, personaly.

Here's some of the deals I received at walmart:

1) My wifes new Nisssan Xterrra got a dent in in the drivers door at walmart by someone who jammed open their car door into it ....... it made us sick.

2 )My daughters car recieved thousands of dollars in damage from shopping carts being jammed into her car at walmart.
3) I replaced at least on tail light in her previous mini-van due to people at walmart backing up until the bumper is literaly used...... (the other tail light was at mall with same scenario and it was the same tail light !)

I went a few times and I've noticed people 'must' throw their clothes on the floor in aisle- way ,rather than hang them back up .............. I had to walk around it .

I think the net result is were money behind.

Yeah... you guys can blame government taxes and regulation for the rise of Walmart and the death of American manufacturing, but here's the bottoms line...

Abolish all taxes in America and American manufacturing still could not compete with Chinese slave/near-slave labor.

As far as regulation goes, who needs it?

Who needs pet food that won't kill your dog?

Who needs toys coated in paint that won't give your children brain damage?

This is not about taxes, regulation, big government gone wild, or socialism v capitalism...

This is about fair, moral, and ethical business practices. Something Walmart hasn't engaged in for about 20 years.

Wall marts lowering prices everyday all up in Canada too.


Canadians Get Our Tires at Canadian Tire. No nexens on cars out here, Eat it cause you can't compete it b%&ch (Wall-mart). And apparently in Europe Canadian tire money is sometimes worth the same as Canadian money. Freebee. Folks of Europe, if a Canadian bill has the word TIRE on it its not the real deal... anyways wheres the wall-mart money???
But other than to buy Tires 1/2 to 3/4 of folks in Canada are probably frequenting the local Wall mart... I do because it's always the only store open when I need to shop...

Aspies got to love the later hours when the crowds are gone and wall mart is open for your shopping convenience .


Love to Hate Wall-mart but I hate loving to shop there.

Awesome stuff

Walmart is way cheaper than the grocery stores. I get my personal care items at Walmart. Sometimes I go to Target. They have cute PJs at Walmart too.

I don't understand much of the hate for Wal-Mart. Maybe I'm not old enough to know any better, but in my experience before Wal-Mart it was Kmart(and other similar stores). Then again, in my city, the Targets and Wal-Marts only started popping up in the last decade. Before that though, I still don't remember a wealth of small businesses. It just seems to me that nothing much has changed or whatever it is, it hasn't happened here yet(things happen slow in the midwest).

My opinions and personal observations: have heard others offer similar, but today no documentation from economists or the like is looked up.

It is in that those create conditions making easier, or more difficult, the situation cited in the following statement by the OP


It is all tied together in much the same manner in which disease in one part of the human body creates effects in others.
(and a lot of times government is perceived as the disease)
(perhaps rightly so at times)

Compartmentalization creates a distorted perception.

I've heard people speak of a fair number of people all over the planet harboring deep hatred of capitalism and the private sector; and have said "Yeah, right, that's just a hair of exaggeration. And next you're going to tell me it's a conspiracy."
But I dunno, the more I see in several forums for different interests . . .

BTW, Government wasn't the one here to find lead in the toys, Private outfits were.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/11/18/Calif-warns-retailers-on-toys-with-lead/UPI-67571258575185/



In case it was overlooked the first time:

And for those who just returned from a potty break:

And here's what we get from the Government Which Cares Oh So Very Much About The People http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2009/02/05/CPSC-delays-lead-testing-rule/UPI-11241233892560/

Note the CPSC has a web page requesting input of discoveries from Private Citizens http://www.cpsc.gov/talk.html

3 out of 5 requested inputs are from the private sector.
Meaning the majority of the data likely comes from the private sector.

Let the private sector publicize its tests and the free market system will take care of the rest - i.e. people won't buy the s#it..
The media, which does have its own faults, will assist in that in the way they thrive on controversy and bad news.
(cue Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry")

Ahh, how to do this without sounding bigtime confrontational?

What do you see as the details of those?

Okay, besides being obnoxious and disrespectful, the post above demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how governmental regulation and inspection works with regard to manufacturing.

As someone who spent 20 years in a highly regulated manufacturing sector, let me assure you, it doesn’t matter who detected the problem.

The fact that adulterated goods made it out of the factory represents a complete failure of the system.

Governmental regulation and inspection programs are supposed to ensure that dangerous products are never produced, let alone shipped.

The fact that you can go to a store, buy food and eat it without fear of getting kidney damage from chemicals used in place of protein is a testament to its effectiveness.

The fact that little children in china can’t drink milk with the same confidence is a clear illustration of why manufacturers should not be allowed to ignore US regulations simply because they moved their operations overseas.


Fair, moral, and ethical would be NOT undermining American and European manufacturing operations with sweatshop systems, unfree labor, or operations that subject their workers to less than living wages and extreme health and safety hazards.
Many examples here… http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/

And honestly, just go back to my first post…

Do you really want the butchers of Tiananmen Square to have hegemony over the entire world?

…because that’s where we’re headed.

For at least the last 3 centuries economic and industrial might has been synonymous with global power.

Just as Britain lost its place to the US with her refusal to retool during the second industrial revolution, American will lose its position to the Chinese if we trade our manufacturing base for cheap crap and a service based economy fueled by credit card debt and bank fraud.

...and the chinese ain't warm and cuddly like us.

Last edited by GoonSquad on 21 Dec 2009, 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.