"Psychics" like John Edward and Silvia Brown

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history_of_psychiatry
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19 Dec 2009, 12:37 am

In my own personal experience I can conclude that I know for a fact that most people do indeed have some psychic ability. Stuff that others shrug off as coincidence many times is, but many times it's a little too coincidental to be coincidence. I however have a somewhat hard time believing that these people with PERFECT psychic abilities like John Edward and Silvia Brown are as psychic as they say they are (if at all). I think most people would agree with me on that. But here is my question: Are people like Brown and Edwards delusional or con artists? In other words, are they people who really do think they have psychic powers or are they slimy sacks of crap who know damn well they have no powers but pretend to have powers just for the money and fame?? It's very hard for me to tell. I've heard testimonies from people claiming both scenarios. What do you all think...not about psychics in general but about famous psychics like Brown and Edwards??


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techstepgenr8tion
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19 Dec 2009, 6:13 pm

I think, on the sheer scale that they work - cold reading your way through it just wouldn't work. You'd never build the credentials to get on tv let alone be able to not have a massive meltdown at some point; much sooner than later.

There may be some mechanism of physics that enables this, perhaps an uncanny ability to read space-time in an intuitive way. On another tangent there is a guy out there, from my own city, named Issam Nemeh who operated in this way as a faith healer - although rather than being a bible-beating tele-evangelist this guy was a very mild mannered individual, actually a doctor of neurology at the Cleveland Clinic, who said that he applied the scientific method to his faith and that he's been able to heal people ever since as he was able to completely overrule all doubt.

I think what does make me wonder though is where I see people like Silvia Brown mapping and documenting the seven levels of reality, the seven levels of heaven, how all of that works - I guess whatever this reality is can just as easily be incredibly hoaky - gravity isn't a matter of taste for us either I guess - certain things turn a little bizarre when they start extending themselves out that far into metaphysical explanation.

Overall though, with this angle of things - I really can't say that I know what's going on. I do have to agree with you on the other hand, there is something to it; what exactly though I don't know and would love to think that we'll be able to make more practical use of it than entertainment in the future.



history_of_psychiatry
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20 Dec 2009, 12:06 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I think, on the sheer scale that they work - cold reading your way through it just wouldn't work. You'd never build the credentials to get on tv let alone be able to not have a massive meltdown at some point; much sooner than later.

There may be some mechanism of physics that enables this, perhaps an uncanny ability to read space-time in an intuitive way. On another tangent there is a guy out there, from my own city, named Issam Nemeh who operated in this way as a faith healer - although rather than being a bible-beating tele-evangelist this guy was a very mild mannered individual, actually a doctor of neurology at the Cleveland Clinic, who said that he applied the scientific method to his faith and that he's been able to heal people ever since as he was able to completely overrule all doubt.

I think what does make me wonder though is where I see people like Silvia Brown mapping and documenting the seven levels of reality, the seven levels of heaven, how all of that works - I guess whatever this reality is can just as easily be incredibly hoaky - gravity isn't a matter of taste for us either I guess - certain things turn a little bizarre when they start extending themselves out that far into metaphysical explanation.

Overall though, with this angle of things - I really can't say that I know what's going on. I do have to agree with you on the other hand, there is something to it; what exactly though I don't know and would love to think that we'll be able to make more practical use of it than entertainment in the future.



I have met people as well that truly are (or truly seem) psychic. However there is something with Brown and Edward that just doesn't sit right with me (maybe that's my psychic intuition). I just can't tell whether they are schizotypal or liars.


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LKL
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20 Dec 2009, 5:05 am

they're both frauds.



techstepgenr8tion
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20 Dec 2009, 11:12 am

Psych, to your topic I had something funny happen to me along these lines last night. I've had a computer since maybe August of 2007 - no problems with it any time since aside from perhaps software issues. I got in from Chicago Friday night, started working on a new tune, decided that I had enough good fragments from over the year to work on an LP, started grabbing and modifying everything that I thought was decent, threw it on a secondary storage drive I have just for safe keeping; my hard drive ground to a halt last night around 3 AM, its completely fried. Its not unusual for me to back stuff up but I had that compelling urge to grab everything that was worth anything and back it up.

I have a feeling that I'm the type of person where if someone gave me Zener cards I probably would be a statistical outlier - I'd get 99.999% wrong :lol: , still its kind of funny that things worked out that way. Good news is I'll go out and get a copy of Windows 7, better OS than Geeksquad Windows, I just have to reload my programs today and I barely think I'll skip a beat.



southwestforests
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20 Dec 2009, 12:24 pm

I think Silvia Brown has been banned from radio show Coast to Coast AM after having been caught at lies or fraud.

Okay, found reference to that:

Quote:
Sago Mine controversy

On January 3, 2006, Browne was a guest on the U.S. radio program Coast to Coast AM with George Noory.[35] At the start of the broadcast it was believed that 12 of 13 miners trapped by the Sago Mine disaster had been found alive. When Noory asked Browne if she had had any psychic premonitions regarding the men -- if she had felt "that this was a very gloomy moment -- and that they might have all died?" she replied, "No, I knew they were going to be found." Later in the program it was revealed that the earlier news reports had been in error, and only one of the men was believed to have survived. At this point Browne was alleged to have contradicted her earlier statement, stating that "I don't really think there's anybody alive", and, "How crazy for them to report that they were alive when they weren’t!" [36] Browne later argued that she had never specifically stated that the miners would be found alive, only that they would be found, and that she was referring to the bodies of the dead miners being found. In the October 3, 2007 episode of Coast to Coast, Noory identified this incident as the reason he has not invited Browne back to the show.[37]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Browne#Sago_Mine_controversy

But wait, there's more!

Quote:
Sylvia Browne (born Sylvia Celeste Shoemaker October 19, 1936) is an American author on the subject of spirituality who performs as a psychic and spiritual medium.[1] She has made several appearances on Larry King Live, was a weekly guest on The Montel Williams Show, and hosts her own hour-long show on Hay House Radio, discussing paranormal issues and giving callers advice in her role as a "psychic".

Browne has been convicted of investment fraud and grand theft,[2] and has been involved in numerous controversies regarding her claims and predictions, with reports about her failed predictions and claims appearing in several newspapers.[3][4][5] Critics such as James Randi, with whom she has had a long running feud, say that she is a cold reader whose readings are indistinguishable from those achieved by mentalists using cold and hot reading techniques. Recent press coverage has asserted that she is overall inaccurate, claimed to have given insight into how she treats her fans, and reported her feelings about critics like Randi.[6]


Found this
Quote:
Sylvia was assigned 200 hours of community service after she was convicted of investment fraud in 1992.

And
Quote:
An article in the June 6th, 1992 edition of the San Francisco Chronicle:

Psychic Consultant Arraigned in Fraud Case

San Jose - Sylvia Brown, who gives psychic consultations and heads a Gnostic Christian church in Campbell as well as a psychic research foundation, was arraigned yesterday along with her estranged husband on six counts of grand theft and investment fraud.

Brown, 55, and Kensil (Dal) Brown, 48, allegedly sold securities to a gold mining venture in Paradise (Butte county) under false pretenses.

According to the criminal complaint filed in Santa Clara County Superior Court, the Browns told investors their money would be used to pay operating expenses at the mine. Sylvia Brown claimed to have strong psychic "feelings" that the mine would pay off.

Instead of paying for the mine, the complaint alleges that the Browns transferred at least $27,000 in investment money to an account maintained on behalf of the Nirvana Foundation for Psychic Research, which the Browns founded in 1974. One month after the transfer, in April 1988, the Browns declared bankruptcy in the mining venture, the complaint said.


Quote:
The People of the State of California vs Sylvia Celeste Brown and Kensil Dalzell Brown
MUNICIPAL COURT OF CALIFORNIA
SANTA CLARA COUNTY JUDICIAL DISTRICT
SAN JOSE FACILITY
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, Plaintiff,
vs
SYLVIA CELESTE BROWN (10/19/36)
Campbell, CA
Kensil Dalzell Brown (10/08/43)
San Jose, CA
Defendant(s)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/The_People_vs_Sylvia_Celeste_Browne_%28text%29.pdf

Quote:
Defendants criminal activities could not have been discovered by Helling earlier, because
he was an unsophisticated investor, who had no knowledge of the regulations regarding
qualification of securities, and further, had no way of knowing that a substantial portion
of his investment had been channeled into other ventures by the Browns.
If the above-named defendant(s) is/are presently on probation in Santa Clara County, any
evidence presented at a preliminary hearing in the instant case will be used not only as a
basis for a holding in this case but also as a circumstance for a violation of probation and,
at any formal hearing on that violation of probation, the People will move the transcript
of the preliminary hearing into evidence as a basis for the violation.
Further, attached hereto and incorporated herein are official reports and documents of a
law enforcement agency which the undersigned believes establish probable cause for the
arrest of defendant SYLVIA CELESTE BROWN, for the above-listed crimes.
Wherefore, A WARRANT OF ARREST IS REQUESTED therefore.


Looks like there were eight counts against her.


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Tom
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20 Dec 2009, 12:44 pm

I believe in psychic ability and i believe we can all have intuition (as tech did) and should listen to it. I dont trust that Sylvia Brown tho.