All those self-diagnosis threads...

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I was thinking, and I had an idea.. could the whole value-of-self-diagnosis thing be designated as a PPR issue? It really is a political/philosophical issue, and it's always a huge debate, it's almost never actually a real discussion.. so perhaps it would be better to keep that debate in the section meant for political and philosophical debates, rather than continuously having it in the general section. As far as I can tell, the reason that people go to the PPR section is to debate, so that way people who want to get into debates can go debate in the section meant for that, and it's not a constant issue in sections meant for more civil discussion.
(Posting this here rather than PMing a mod 'cause I'm hoping to find out if other members would find that helpful too..)

The point is good, and valid, and I've not really been around here long enough to know the answer, but I do have some thoughts on the issue and a bit too much time on my hands.

There are phil and political issues and there are practical and personal issues around diagnosis. There are also professional ones.

Self-diagnosis vs diagnosis has so many ramifications and practical considerations. Sure, I can self-diagnose myself with anything. I'm entitled to that opinion. It has practical value to come to a decision as to who and what I am, and it helps me to understand myself in a social/cultural context, and to avail myself of the social and cognitive heuristics available to support that diagnosis that are personally accessible and applicable. That's not political or philosophical, but practical and personal (I choose these words just cause they alliterate; there may be more useful ones). Self-diagnosis is useless, imho, in an institutional context. Work place, school and social institutions do not recognize self-diagnosis in a meaningful way. We are not qualified to self-diagnose, even if we are certified to do so with others. That's just what it is. A teacher cannot mark herself. A judge cannot free himself on bail.

Now the discussion of the validity of self-diagnosis, the social politics of the rights of individuals to self-diagnosis that should be accepted as valid in social and cultural contexts... that is all for the philosophical and political, and much more broad than aspie/autie issues, but goes for anyone interested in the institutionalization of lived experience. I'd suggest anyone interested in that might like to have a look at the works of Ivan Illich's Deschooling Society [http://www.preservenet.com/theory/Illich/Deschooling/intro.html] which is one of the great works on the institutionalization of lived experience... and the self-application of an institutional medical designation is a wonderful challenge of the mental health institutions and the re-appropriation of how we define ourselves, while at the same time falling under the umbrella of mental health institutions at the same time. A philosophical conundrum.

I think that the challenge is that people don't like to be told to separate these issues, and both are emotional. And in the end, one informs the other. BUT for those who want to make meaningful choices for themselves, then it the discussion should be a general discussion, perhaps "Practical issues of Self-Diagnosis" thread. For those who are more interested in the abstract discussionation of 'should' we be considering self-diagnosis, the political ramifications of institutionalization of how we live in a social world, why not save peeps the trouble of the big questions when they're looking for practical answers and move the discussion over to PPR?

I can't see what religion has to do with it at all... but I've not read the threads on it, and will have to. I see ASD from a radical empiricism perspective which precludes belief and faith in any context. I'd like to discuss how it is possible to have faith/belief in anything along with any ASD diagnosis. They seem mutually exclusive.

IMHO of course. Your mileage may vary.

Happy solstice and a cool yule!

Okay, well I'm not going to get into the whole argument in this thread, I was just making a suggestion about where it might be more appropriately talked about.
I wasn't saying it had to do with religion.. just politics and philosophy.. something doesn't have to include all three to go in the PPR section.

My point was that it's a debate topic that gets so heated and so full of insults and stuff, it ends up not being an autism issue or discussion, but a debate that would be much more appropriate to keep to the PPR section where people are prepared for a debate. (Usually, when the topic comes up, it's because somebody wants to be inflammatory. Everyone else is pretty much agreed that the topic in general has too many factors for there to be a simple yes/no answer.) I was just saying that it's a debate topic that would go better in the debate section than in the generally autism discussion section. It's a PPR topic in the fact that everybody on either side of the debate or in the middle pretty much has their reasons for thinking what they think, and breaking out into a debate over it in the general discussion section tends to have the same general effect as breaking into a political or religious debate would.

complicitytheory covered the points I was gonna make. My thinking basically, is, it depends on the thread. Is a person posting focusing on their own stuff? Or is it a debate on the general topic? The problem being that (I suspect/assume) the two things are going to wind up mixed up in the same thread.

I think if someone is starting a thread on the value/dis-value of self-diagonisis in general, then perhaps you are right that it should go in the forum for philosophical discussions.

But if a person is posting about their own personal issue, that doesn't. It's not a PPR type discussion, and doesn't go there. Not unless the person is planning on a PPR type discussion rather than a dealing with my stuff discussion. That the thread might devolve into a philosophical debate (I see nothing political about it) isn't a reason for posting the post in a forum that doesn't fit what it's about.

Ditto everything that Mysty said. No point me adding exactly the same comments.

I think that people have found it a provoking topic. I also think that some people like to stir up provocation when they are bored over the Christmas break. I find it interesting that there are so many threads about this controversial topic by people that have history of being confrontational and provoking to other members.

So I mostly council members to avoid threads that are put up for provoking hard feelings between any group of peoples.

Merle
Moderator

I was referring to the ones that are PPR type discussions and not personal discussions.
I try to stay away from the obviously inflammatory topics in general, but it's just difficult when they're all over the general discussion section, and when they have names that don't necessarily designate them as those type of threads. (I'm not going to know to avoid a thread called "what's up with this?")
I definitely wasn't referring to posts from people who are talking about an issue that they're having, or how/when/why to go about diagnosis, or anything like that.. I was referring to the ones that are created just to insult people. The ones that don't make many real points, don't present concerns, just say nonsensical things about how anybody who thinks they have AS but doesn't have an official diagnosis is somehow doing the poster harm, and that they're very rightfully angry at all those people and will carry on and on.

I sometimes wonder if it shouldnt have its own sticky and discussion diverted to it, instead of the multiple silly threads...

That might make sense too, but there have been problems with there being too many stickies as it is.. Or do you think maybe a sticky in PPR, or in the Autism Politics section?

I want to say I appreciate the subtle humor of this thread.

complicitytheory:
Our PP&R discussion area is far more than the name Politics, Philosophy, and Religion would suggest. It has become the place where a more combatative method is used to discuss the various and unique topics that occur on a Aspergers support site. taking a thread to PP&R is placing it in a discussion section that people know they are being provoked and passions runs high.

Welcome to WrongPlanet.net complicitytheory. Welcome home!

Well, anywhere really, as long as I dont get caught in the Self Diagnosis Discussion Vortex... yet again....

Exactly.

I do not know what I think should be done with/about all of the self diagnosis topics, but I think something should be done. I like the sticky idea, and agree that I do not much care where the sticky ends up. I avoid those threads anyway... I have seen how they can hurt and/or shake people up. The less of those threads out there, the better, me thinks. Perhaps one sticky in the ppr section for those who enjoy the heated debates and another in general autism for those who simply want to relate personal information from their lives? That would be easy enough to watch over if people start to carry... what is the word... if they try to bring the 'essence' of one topic to the other they could be redirected to go to the other thread. Did that make sense? Meh. I know... not helpful with the too many stickies issue... I hope you are right about, sinsboldly, and this whole trend will subside as people go back about their business after break.