Another Crime against Humanity by Men?

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So it seems that Childbirth does not have to be painful at all

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 924063.ece

Could it be that Man, in their strive to conquor the Female of the species didnt just turn Sexuality into a Demon, but also Childbirth? (rember in 'the begining', in the Bible, childbirth was not painful until after 'sin' came to the world, not a great source of info, but I believe there is something in that, i'm going to investigate)

It makes perfect sense to me, that an Orgasm would be far more useful for childbirth, afterall muscles need to be relaxed as much as possible when trying to release something from your body that size, so why on earth would human females suddenly deciede to stop relaxing and start screaming in agony as their muscles tense up and rip to pieces?! The only answer I can come up with, is Male domination

If so, that is a horrific prospect, and I say with great shame, as a man, that I culdnt be more sorry about it

Giving birth while lying down is another strange modern invention.

Traditionally, women give birth while squatting or standing (leaning against something), push with their abdominal muscles, and let gravity work in their favor.

(I took a class called "Anthropology of Reproduction" in college.)

The most wide-spread old-fashioned birthing method is to squat while rocking back and forth (like stimming). The rocking helps with the pain, and probably calms the baby and encourages it to move along down the birth canal.

The idea of giving birth while lying down in bed was introduced along with the idea that women should give birth in a hospital. Giving birth in a hospital is valuable in case medical care is needed during or after the birth. But with this practice came the idea that the woman should be totally passive in the experience, lying down so that medical professionals can basically help to remove the baby from her (which sounds kind of creepy when I think about it . . . ).


Interesting trivia fact:

Some bones in the human body do not fully solidify into their adult form until the individual is in their early 20's. One significant one is the pelvis. Until a woman is about 22 years old, she still has "soft spots" in her pelvis, so if she gives birth at a younger age than this, the pelvis actually stretches a bit and, as she comes of age, solidifies into a shape that is better-equipped for birthing than the average pelvis of a woman who has not given birth by age 22 or so.

While modern society is structured to reward waiting to give birth until a later age, it seems the female body is actually designed with the expectation that the woman will have her first child circa age 18 - 20.

Great, so my best friend, who had kid #1 at like 16, is gonna be in great shape, having had two more at 19 and 20. Me, however, having had no kids and honing in on 23 here in 10 days... by the time I pop one out, I'm screwed. Thanks for the insight Bats.

My sister had hers at 17, she had a real hard labor and they had a real hard time getting the baby out. We almost thought that either her or the kid weren't going to make it.

Her second labor went easy but her third labor didn't go so well. She miscarried the fourth one and our nephew who would've been about 6 this year died from a set of genetic conditions.

I don't know about 'male domination', but that was definitely an interesting article. I don't agree with the use of a 'doula' though, unless you live next door to a hospital in case anything goes wrong...

The reason women lie down whilst giving birth in hospital is because it's very hard for the midwife to gain access when the woman squats.

Kip, I wouldn't worry too much about the bones fusing; it's a lot more to do with how wide your pelvic canal is.

Well, it seems the comment I made about anthropology and human anatomy has sparked an interest in debate.

I'll post a link and start a topic in the PPR section.

Don't want to derail this thread.

Interesting

Constipation can also be easily alleviated by squatting, which modern toilets are really not designed for.

I don't think this was ever a conspiracy against women, so much as a plot by some doctors to make more money.

are you suggesting that women choose a more painful way of giving birth? I very much doubt that to be the case.

I have been trying to find out some proper information about pain in other animals during birth, I've not managed to find anything so far that doesnt simply make the assumption that they do experience pain, rather than actually looking into it, unsuprisingly as the entire planet is now convinced that natrual birth has to be painful.

It really wouldnt not suprise me to discover that humanity (men) has imposed this burden on themselves (on women) as part of the various crusades by various religons to demonize anything associated with Sex and Pleasure, Humans like doing that sort of power-trip bulls**t

In this case, doctors (men) not religions (men). In fact, there used to be both male and female midwives. Then the Puritans decided that the idea of having a man present at all during childbirth was obscene and unthinkable, so there were only female midwives in that period. After religion weakened and (male) doctors got into the business, there was a fairly well documented crusade to monopolize the lucrative obstetrics industry using propaganda and laws, not as some misogynistic conspiracy against women but for a much simpler motive: greed. The rest is simply due to a tendency by early doctors to put their own convenience above the patient's comfort, and to ignore traditional methods as primitive despite empirical evidence to the contrary.

So while men are indeed to blame, let's make sure we blame the right men, ok?

Pain in childbirth streches back to the dawn of Monotheism, at least 10,000 years depending on which version of history you like, at this point Religon and Medicine where heavily intertwined, but in a diffrent way to the way in which it became with Monotheism. ie monotheiests believe disease is a punishment from God, and many believe(d) that the act of Sex was a sin and therefore also childbirth, 'Pagans' and other early religons focused on harmonising with the universe and understood the delicate balances in our ecosytem and how it can affect our health, they also considered Sexuality to be an important part of Spirituality, and Child Birth to be something sacred...in direct conflict with Monotheists, this has been the root cause of many millions of deaths accross the world. I find it highly unlikly that such a perceptive view ('pagan' style ideologys) would force women to be in pain, the same cannot be said of Monotheistic concepts however.

I would agree, the culprit is Greed, but initially not for Money, but for Power

It would also be appreciated if the blame was directed at the men (and women) who make such decisions over time and not a broadside taken at all men. Whether a woman gives birth in a bed, on her head, or in a squat - doesn't much matter to me. So please don't include me in the shotgun blast when you vent. I would question whether it is "pain-free" but would seem to make sense that gravity would work better in a vertical alignment than a horizontal one to assist in the process.


M.

The egyptian hieroglyph for "childbirth" is a woman kneeling with the baby's head and arms appearing below her.

Squatting in childbirth wasn't uncommon in egypt, greece, medieval times, and as recently as the renaissance.

Biblical references to "pain" in childbirth - there's only one, and it's a mistranslation. The original meaning was "sorrow", and it implied that because women are more attached to their children, and worry about them more. More children = more worrying.

Puritanism is fairly recent, and their view was that men shouldn't even be in the room - so any poor practices in childbirth during that time can only be blamed on women, as they were the only ones involved. The Chastity belt wasn't invented until the 19th century or so.

As much as I'd like to blame Monotheism for this ... I still think the doctors did it.

i dont think doctors force the women on the beds do they? if they say before hand "i want to give birth squatting/kneeling/standing up the doctors would be forced to oblige.

You are completly missing the point, Puritanism is not what I was talking about, hence my refrences to 10,000years ago, and of course re Egypt, they where not Montheistic except for a few blips in their history involving Ra and various Pharohs, and then the subsequent Roman influence.

I am not suprised that civilizations have used 'squatting' as a birth procedure, many Druids and Pagans where the Scientists and Doctors of every era, and have activly been persecuted by Monotheism since its arrival.

Blaming Women is an absurd suggestion, I really dont understand your logic for that, I can only assume that you dont fully comprehend the monumental shift in power which occoured as a direct result of Monotheistic ideals, so much so that it influenced almost the entire planet. Women became property, they had no rights to tell a doctor or husband/owner how they wanted to give birth, or anything much else for that matter.

I'm not suggesting that its continued practice (painful childbirth) is an active 'religous' idea anymore, but that it started that way, and stuck, with horrific consequences, if its true