Correlation? Misogyny/Misandry & Relationships

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Just an observation from this forum... but does it seem the greater the level of anger and hatred for the opposite gender, that there is a corresponding decrease in the level of success in finding and/or maintaining relationships? I'm not talking about apathy, but active antipathy and confessed hostility towards those who at the same time they are trying to pursue as a romantic interest. Interestingly, there seems to be some slight benefit to a degree of apathy depending on the individual - how frequent is the comment "I gave up looking for someone, only to meet my (significant other) a few (weeks/months) later" by members here? If that anger does have a direct impact on one's chances, then how do those with that mentality re-examine the situation to help themselves? Is there also any connection to those who actively deplore their single situation?

Please note: I'm making observations. I've made no assertions here, and have asked several questions to solicit feedback.


M.

Why do people prefer blaming the "global feminist conspiracy", rather than do the things necessary to rectify their situation?

My observation is that it goes the other way. People (of either gender) react to repeated failure with frustration, anger, and apparent hatred. Yet those negative emotions often disappear overnight the first time they have any success.



For the same reason as people who prefer blaming the "global patriarchy conspiracy", I'd guess.

Yes to your observation that actively intensely disliking your situation only exacerbates the problem of rectifying it. As to fixing that mentality I'd assume it would come from acceptance or pure determination and confidence, something difficult to achieve for most, especially us. I avoided the trap by accepting that I'll most likely be single for my life and it doesn't bother me. I do not have the determination/confidence to go out and continually search for a relationship with a mindset that I WILL get one. That doubt would always be there for me, I am simply unable to look at in such optimistic terms as I'm too much of a realist. And honestly, I haven't the faintest idea of how to go about a relationship lol.

I've seen numerous occasions in the forums here where after one or more relationships, individuals are still exhibiting the same behavior that those who have never been in a relationship display. I agree that the negativity may disappear for awhile, but I think it inhibits the ability to develop relationships in the first place, and since it is the 'practiced' mode of thinking that it will subsequently become a problem later in a relationship as well.


M.

Wow, M....looking for the easy answers tonight, huh?

Obviously, there are lots of different answers to this one. Being attracted to a specific person can make one feel quite vulnerable. It can be difficult to express desire for another because when you do that, you're inviting that person to judge you. If they find you to be undesirable, that can be painful on a very personal level. I've heard that people will often project negative qualities onto someone they like for just that reason - a pre-emptive devaluation of the object of your affection can make their rejection sting just a little less.

Then there's what I believe you're describing - a kind of free-floating enmity toward a whole gender, rather than a specific person. I think the roots are probably similar, in some ways. People can be desperate for what they think a relationship will provide: a sense of belonging; validation; sex; love; connection; intimacy; children; an end to loneliness....it's a long list. Most people want those things, but the continual denial of them can make a person place a disproportionate value on the impact of actually having them, e.g., having a relationship will make them whole; make their life worth living; make them valid and valued in ways that nothing else can. It's easy to see the frustration...if only one woman/man would choose them, their life would change - dramatically and permanently. When that one woman/man doesn't come along, the anger and frustration can grow to the point of misogyny/misandry.

And that theory completely ignores all the developmental reasons a person can find him/herself in that boat. They may have had an abusive parent of the opposite sex; they may have been raised by an alcoholic; gambler; drug addict; rage-aholic; workaholic, etc. parent(s); they may have been mistreated by a former partner; they may have endured sexual abuse as a child.....again, the list is fairly endless.

I don't know if ceasing to look for a partner can actually attract one. But my theory is that having your own act together will go a long way toward attracting a partner. People on this forum seem to discuss the biological theories that attempt to explain why we choose a mate....good genes, survival of the offspring, casting of the seed far and wide, etc. I think that there's more than just the physical component to that theory. It's fairly easy to tell if a potential mate is psychologically healthy; if they have appropriate coping skills; if they've dealt with their issues (because we all have issues); if they're reasonable problem solvers; if they accept responsibility for their own bad behavior; if they're kind, decent, honest, etc. Those characteristics - just as much as broad shoulders or "breeding" hips - influence the choice of a mate.

What can people on this forum who've given in to the anger do to change their situation? Get their act together. Get a good therapist, get some effective medication, stop thinking about what they can get from a relationship, and instead take a long, unflinching look at what they bring to a relationship. Take a look at past relationship failures and look for patterns (hint: all your relationship failures have one thing in common: you). Are you the kind of person you'd want your son/daughter to marry? If not, then make the changes you need to make in order to become that person. Start living your life with integrity. Learn how to listen, negotiate, compromise. Improve yourself....become the kind of partner you're looking for. That's when you'll start attracting quality people. Trust me, there's no amount of perfume or Axe capable of covering the smell of desperation, neediness, low self-esteem, narcissim, hate, jealousy, etc.

Anyway, those are my thoughts....hope they help someone.

It makes sense that one could be the cause of the other, or vice versa. It's not gender specific, and I have been relieved to not have had it required of me to reject a few who seemed bitter or out-of-bounds, possibly because they'd been rejected by others in the past.

I actually hate that some people seem to have this attitude, almost as much as I hate the term 'other half'. I remember a few years ago seeing an Andrew Matthews cartoon of a couple looking at eachother in anger and misery both saying "But you're supposed to make me happy!". I think the message of that cartoon is that if you're not happy in yourself you can't expect someone to come along and magically make you happy. Even if they do get past the wall of negativity to get close to you, you'll need too much from them, you'll demand too much and you might end up smothering anything they felt for you. Be a whole person and try to be happy in yourself. Strive to go out and make friends, maybe you'll end up with a relationship, maybe you won't, but if you can't keep a friendship you probably can't manage a relationship anyway.

Because blaming people is easier than taking action, and easier than looking at one's own flaws.

Gremmie, you speak the truth. Well said.

No I don't think there is a strong correlation, just appears like that because those are the people that b***h about it most. Many Misogynist/Misandrist are in relationships of sorts.

I really think it's sort of a chicken and egg situation, but if I had to guess, I would say that a good 70% of the misandry and misogyny here is caused by lack of success in the dating world. I've seen it with my friends, and it does turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy and a vicious cycle.

For sure, there are individuals who are already like this because of a bad environment (bad home life, terrible parents, harsh treatment at school, etc.)...

....But, I tend to think the majority went out there as a clean slate, hoping, as we all do, to find that special someone and connect. Some of us Aspies (or near-Aspies, in my case) seem to especially lack that connection already in our lives, which makes us want it even more, makes us desperate for affection. As discussed before, desperation is unattractive, but once someone is in that state where they feel like they are losing and lacking what everyone else has, it is very hard to get them back out of that state and into an attractive one. So that person ends up driving away candidates (more so than their Aspie traits already were), and the "loser" keeps on losing. (I was one of them, so please don't take this as an insult, anyone)

After a while, it is easy to give up hope, to find global reasons for why nobody wants you, especially reasons that don't cast aspersions on the self. It becomes easy to say that "All women have X problem, and that's why they don't appreciate a guy like me." It's bad logic, and self-destructive, but it's also a sign of folks that are clinging to the last vestiges of their self-respect and self esteem.

In both cases, I would say some kind of professional intervention is needed -- these people need a helping hand. I do what I can here to try to offer my advice, as someone who was once in that category, but I do know how hard it is to get out of that slump, and how easy it is to stay there or fall back in.

This second thought also just occurred to me --

When we're in the "loser" zone, the women or men we do tend to attract tend to not be the best examples of their gender. People with problems, issues, ect., for sure, but also a whole heck of a lot of users who spot the vulnerability and opportunity, and seize it to exploit us for their gain. Users are very good at this -- they live off of using other people, so they have quite the skillset around cultivating people to exploit. I ran into this a lot during my worst period, when I was visibly desperate and clearly not in touch with the rest of my peers.

So clearly if you are running into the worst of the worst time after time, your opinion of the other gender is going to drop precipitously, and you will start making generalizations that everyone in that gender is like that.

That's a really good point.

The last part here confuses me; if it is truly self-respect and self-esteem, then why do they choose to make that dependent upon external, third-party opinions? It seems that if one defines themselves in that manner, that they do not have a sense of self-worth but can only reflect their own interpretations of how others see them. I can understand that prior experience has an effect, but one chooses whether to allow circumstance to dictate perspective, or to adhere to their own. The whole of the matter boggles me.


M.

Well -- in my lowest self-esteem moments, I do remember that my ego would even then jump to my defense when directly challenged. It's a survival mechanism -- That truck is heading right for you, get out of the road!! But in moments of repose, the internal dialogue about how low value I was, how nobody liked me and probably never would, how I would never get a girlfriend, came creeping back in.

Depressed people often have a schizoid aspect to their personality -- some part of them is fighting for survival, trying to rebuild the self, trying to rationalize any other reason for their failure.

The other thing to think about is how hard it is to really view the world objectively. When all you really have is your experiences vs. what other people tell you reality is, and you find a lot of what you see doesn't match up with them, you really do tend to favor your own observations. And if those observations are tainted by a negative mental state, the way you view the world becomes very distorted. Everyone has this problem, but people with mental illnesses, even minor ones, can get a very skewed perspective on life and what works.

I fight this all the time here when I give advice, and I do understand. I say one thing, but the experience of the people I talk to often is the converse, though not always for the reasons they think it is. It's very hard for a person to admit they are wrong, even to themselves.