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TheHaywire
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05 Mar 2010, 6:22 pm

My friend with AS was discussing that he thought AS was the next step of evolution and he was accused of bashing NT's. I don't think he was bashing NT's... just suggesting that AS could be the next step of evolution.

I'm curious about everyone's feelings on this as it seems to be a controversial topic. I've heard everything from that "a separate but equal mentality would be racist" to "let's all move to an island."



carzak
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05 Mar 2010, 6:34 pm

That a disorder is somehow more evolutionarily advanced is ludicrous.

People need to accept that they have a disorder and stop trying to rationalize it with a superiority complex.



bully_on_speed
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05 Mar 2010, 6:44 pm

probably how Cro-Magnon felt about Homo erectus



pat2rome
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05 Mar 2010, 7:13 pm

Controversy or not, that view is nonsense. Evolution is not directed or goal-oriented, and thus it does not have steps like we are all climbing toward a pinnacle.

Evolution occurs this way: if a trait makes an organism more likely to survive and have offspring, the trait will comprise a bigger percentage of the gene pool. This means that more and more of the population will gain that trait over generations.
, af
That is why it makes no sense to say that Asperger's is the next step of evolution. How would a syndrome characterized by social difficulties make one more likely to pass on offspring? It takes two to tango, after all.


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omicron
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05 Mar 2010, 7:14 pm

carzak wrote:
That a disorder is somehow more evolutionarily advanced is ludicrous.


pall, you should read darwin again. You described exactly how evolution works. Yesterdays ugly ducklings, are tomorrows swans.



omicron
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05 Mar 2010, 7:20 pm

pat2rome wrote:
That is why it makes no sense to say that Asperger's is the next step of evolution. How would a syndrome characterized by social difficulties make one more likely to pass on offspring? It takes two to tango, after all.


A fish with lungs will never be the future of evolution, since lungs are useless in water. :D

If you recognize that the social difficulties are between NTs and aspies, and that now we live in a technology age. There is room to claim aspies are the future .... in 100k years or whatever



Last edited by omicron on 05 Mar 2010, 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Janissy
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05 Mar 2010, 7:20 pm

It's controversial because:

1)it's a supremacy theory

2)it shows an ignorance of evolution- something which causes everybody who knows something about evolution to speak out



Willard
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05 Mar 2010, 7:22 pm

carzak wrote:
That a disorder is somehow more evolutionarily advanced is ludicrous.

People need to accept that they have a disorder and stop trying to rationalize it with a superiority complex.



Actually, its not at all ludicrous. According to evolutionary theory, accidental or random mutations that are found to be beneficial to survival of the species are replicated until they become the new norm.

Norm! :cheers:


pat2rome wrote:
How would a syndrome characterized by social difficulties make one more likely to pass on offspring? It takes two to tango, after all.


Speak for yourself. I've had no problem passing on offspring. :wink:



Last edited by Willard on 05 Mar 2010, 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Janissy
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05 Mar 2010, 7:23 pm

omicron wrote:
pat2rome wrote:
That is why it makes no sense to say that Asperger's is the next step of evolution. How would a syndrome characterized by social difficulties make one more likely to pass on offspring? It takes two to tango, after all.


A fish with lungs will never be the future of evolution, since lungs are useless in water. :D

If you recognize that the social difficulties are between NTs and aspies, there is room to claim aspies are the future .... in 100k years or whatever


Evolution works via reproduction. In what way does Asperger's Syndrome convey a reproductive advantage?



makuranososhi
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05 Mar 2010, 7:23 pm

Actually, evolution places no value on strength or intelligence specifically, but on adaptability - that which is best suited for the environment will fill the available niches most readily, easily, and completely, leaving new niches for others to fit into. As the ugly ducking may become the swan tomorrow, by Monday they may well be turned into pillows and culinary delights.


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05 Mar 2010, 7:24 pm

Hey Haywire. You do have something there. Here are my thoughts on the high probability.

The Origin and Meaning of Autism & The Secret Of Life

The physiology of autism may be an affliction of the observer…You, not the observed autistic child!

The observer and the observed autistic may perceive reality in diametric contradistinction.

To the observer…You, everything is many, and not You.

To the autistic child:

Everything is One…You
You create two, three…Me.
Reality defined as thought, energy, experience, matter and objects are willfully created by Your sentient consciousness.
Time, distance, motion, change, and choice are created illusion.
Light and the universe originate from You.
You are much greater than the outline of Your body.

The beauty and placid serenity of this perception is as resilient and resistant to the observed autistic child as is the perception of the confusing and chaotic “everything is many” to the observer…You!

The autistic child intentionally and willfully does not create “Self”, “I am”, or “me” out of consciousness before, during or after the perceived expulsion from the womb, and is physically one with the universe/environment while the perception of the autistic child by the observer…You, is a dividing organism (birth) in the observer’s own likeness with sentient temporal distance & differences of the observer’s…Your own creation!

As the observer…You perceive or witnesses a birth as a dividing event, separate and outside of “self”, You also witness or perceive the autistic child as a defective being, separate, and outside of Your “self” not realizing and resisting/denying the fact that the child creates, and senses no differences, and is physically – and literally - one with every thing. . .

The specific therapy by the observer to require the observed autistic child to adopt the perception of “everything is many”, is to convince and persuade the child by working one-on-one and eliminating, and/or diminishing, all intrusive stimuli, light, sound, odors, etc. (consider a hyperbaric sensory deprivation chamber), as they become glaring, hurtful, and disruptive respectively, so that the child eventually perceives that creation of “self”, “I am”, “me”, is a viable option, subsequent to becoming one of the many…Not You!

Otherwise and most profoundly, the observer…You, have the option, and opportunity to acknowledge and adopt the perceived reality of “Everything is One…You”, following the lead of the child to develop and maintain the science, art, metaphors, tools and technologies of eliminating “self”, “I am”, “me” in order to create an alternative reality, universe, dimension, illusion and experience one organism…You!


The autistic perception is the unrecognized evolution of mankind being One organism…You!


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Apple_in_my_Eye
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05 Mar 2010, 7:26 pm

Evolution says that organisms which are more well adapted to their environment than their predecessors will reproduce more and are thus more likely to become dominant.

If some people have a disorder, in the usual sense of the word, then they are likely less well adapted to their environment, and not the "next step" in evolution.

The trouble is that people get human (social) notions of "better" mixed up with "evolutionary fitness." Smarter is not necessarily more well adapted. Stronger is not necessarily more well adapted. It depends on the conditions, and nature doesn't care about what humans find to be desirable qualities. If sociopathy gives people an edge in "getting ahead," then that is more well adapted, and the "next step in evolution."



mgran
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05 Mar 2010, 7:32 pm

TheHaywire wrote:
My friend with AS was discussing that he thought AS was the next step of evolution and he was accused of bashing NT's. I don't think he was bashing NT's... just suggesting that AS could be the next step of evolution.

I'm curious about everyone's feelings on this as it seems to be a controversial topic. I've heard everything from that "a separate but equal mentality would be racist" to "let's all move to an island."

I wouldn't say he was bashing N Ts without hearing the evidence. Maybe he did hear evidence (though he doesn't seem to have shared it with anyone.)

However, I'm not sure that your AS friend is necessarily a clinically trained scientist. Anyone can say anything they like... it doesn't make it true. I think to be fair that NTs need us as much as we need them.

So seperatism is suicide. Your friend is presumably very young, yes?



Last edited by mgran on 05 Mar 2010, 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Psychopompos
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05 Mar 2010, 7:33 pm

I didn't know that an "aspie separatism" does exist.
Is it just personal opinions of people, or does it exist as lobbies and political groupes ?


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omicron
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05 Mar 2010, 7:35 pm

Psychopompos wrote:
I didn't know that an "aspie separatism" does exist.
Is it just personal opinions of people, or does it exist as lobbies and political groupes ?


If it does exist i want there web address :D