Toddler shoots herself with a wii gun

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Dox47
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09 Mar 2010, 9:29 pm

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Gun on top is the real one.


This might seem an odd point, but the handgun in question is a Smith and Wesson Sigma Subcompact .380, which has one external safety feature: an 8 to 10 lb trigger pull which is also very long. That is more than ten times the weight of the gun itself and considered on the heavy side for a handgun, the very similar Glock models typically have a 4.5 lb trigger, though there are kits to increase that installed on some police models. My point is that 8-10 lbs is considered heavy enough to act as a safety feature for an adult male user; so how the hell did a 3 year old girl manage to get the gun in such an awkward position to shoot herself in the stomach and still manage to reach the long trigger and pull it all the way through? That model is loaded with internal safeties against accidental discharge, the only way it could have fired was having the trigger pulled fully and held to the rear, and given the hand strength and size of toddlers I find that to be a questionable possibility in the situation described. I'll be really surprised if this story holds together, if anything I can see one of the parents mistaking the real pistol for the admittedly similar looking off-brand Wii peripheral and being the one that actually pulled the trigger, but it's tragic however it happened.


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Last edited by Dox47 on 10 Mar 2010, 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

MyFutureSelfnMe
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09 Mar 2010, 11:21 pm

My first guess would be, she did not shoot herself, or if she did, it was not with that handgun. A gallon of water weighs around 8 pounds, and I don't believe that baby could carry a gallon of water. I too want to know more.

Edit: Maybe a large 3 year old could. The picture of the kid looks a lot younger.



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10 Mar 2010, 12:56 am

I get so angry with stupid parents who leave guns out for their kids to find. You choose to have a gun, then you lock that thing up when it isn't in your hand. You take the responsibility for owning a dangerous tool. You don't leave it lying around the house for your toddler to pick up.



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10 Mar 2010, 6:03 am

I agree that just owning a gun isn't the problem. My father owns (unless he sold them during a recent sale) a light rifle and a revolver, but he sure didn't let me play with either of them when I was three. He also didn't keep them loaded, like a jackass, and most ammo was locked in a steel box.


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10 Mar 2010, 5:33 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Image
Gun on top is the real one.


This might seem an odd point, but the handgun in question is a Smith and Wesson Sigma Subcompact .380, which has one external safety feature: an 8 to 10 lb trigger pull which is also very long. That is more than ten times the weight of the gun itself and considered on the heavy side for a handgun, the very similar Glock models typically have a 4.5 lb trigger, though there are kits to increase that installed on some police models. My point is that 8-10 lbs is considered heavy enough to act as a safety feature for an adult male user; so how the hell did a 3 year old girl manage to get the gun in such an awkward position to shoot herself in the stomach and still manage to reach the long trigger and pull it all the way through? That model is loaded with internal safeties against accidental discharge, the only way it could have fired was having the trigger pulled fully and held to the rear, and given the hand strength and size of toddlers I find that to be a questionable possibility in the situation described. I'll be really surprised if this story holds together, if anything I can see one of the parents mistaking the real pistol for the admittedly similar looking off-brand Wii peripheral and being the one that actually pulled the trigger, but it's tragic however it happened.

This is manslaughter! :evil:

Edit: Or infanticide.


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10 Mar 2010, 6:36 pm

It's 100% the stepfathers fault for leaving the gun were she could get it. No doubt that the parents will have to live with the mistake for the rest of their lives. He should face some charges. Nintendo is not responsible for this tragic accident nor is the NRA. They will not get away with suing Nintendo, who has powerful lawyers that will prove parents fault.



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11 Mar 2010, 12:27 am

After reading some of the more outraged comments, I do have to wonder about the occasional stories I see where a young child has taken a car for a joyride, and wonder how many people lock up their car keys when children are about. Without downplaying the tragedy of the situation in any way, I think the fact that a gun was involved has tapped into a level of outrage that wouldn't be present if the child had died in a similarly negligent but more common fashion, such as drowning in an unfenced pool. I think the fact that this family has lost a child in such a senseless way is punishment enough for a moment of thoughtlessness that's sure to haunt them for the rest of their lives.


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11 Mar 2010, 1:23 am

I think parents who have small kids and no fence around their pools are just as idiotic as parents who leave guns around small children. They are both situations that could have been easily prevented if someone just thought for a second.



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11 Mar 2010, 4:14 am

Dox47 wrote:
Without downplaying the tragedy of the situation in any way, I think the fact that a gun was involved has tapped into a level of outrage that wouldn't be present if the child had died in a similarly negligent but more common fashion, such as drowning in an unfenced pool.


A handgun is better at killing people than a pool, so more care is required of the owners, is all.


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11 Mar 2010, 6:51 am

Mainichi wrote:
It's 100% the stepfathers fault for leaving the gun were she could get it. No doubt that the parents will have to live with the mistake for the rest of their lives. He should face some charges. Nintendo is not responsible for this tragic accident nor is the NRA. They will not get away with suing Nintendo, who has powerful lawyers that will prove parents fault.


About this, does anyone know if the third-party peripheral in the picture has been approved by Nintendo?


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11 Mar 2010, 6:06 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Image
Gun on top is the real one.


This might seem an odd point, but the handgun in question is a Smith and Wesson Sigma Subcompact .380, which has one external safety feature: an 8 to 10 lb trigger pull which is also very long. That is more than ten times the weight of the gun itself and considered on the heavy side for a handgun, the very similar Glock models typically have a 4.5 lb trigger, though there are kits to increase that installed on some police models. My point is that 8-10 lbs is considered heavy enough to act as a safety feature for an adult male user; so how the hell did a 3 year old girl manage to get the gun in such an awkward position to shoot herself in the stomach and still manage to reach the long trigger and pull it all the way through? That model is loaded with internal safeties against accidental discharge, the only way it could have fired was having the trigger pulled fully and held to the rear, and given the hand strength and size of toddlers I find that to be a questionable possibility in the situation described. I'll be really surprised if this story holds together, if anything I can see one of the parents mistaking the real pistol for the admittedly similar looking off-brand Wii peripheral and being the one that actually pulled the trigger, but it's tragic however it happened.


My first thought was that someone is lying. She was 2- that is not logical that she could shoot herself with a real gun. I think there was an accident in the home and they are tryng to cover it up.



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11 Mar 2010, 6:55 pm

Dox47 wrote:
After reading some of the more outraged comments, I do have to wonder about the occasional stories I see where a young child has taken a car for a joyride, and wonder how many people lock up their car keys when children are about. Without downplaying the tragedy of the situation in any way, I think the fact that a gun was involved has tapped into a level of outrage that wouldn't be present if the child had died in a similarly negligent but more common fashion, such as drowning in an unfenced pool. I think the fact that this family has lost a child in such a senseless way is punishment enough for a moment of thoughtlessness that's sure to haunt them for the rest of their lives.


That's because you don't make mistakes with guns.



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11 Mar 2010, 7:03 pm

Title of thread is misleading. I was thinking at first "...so she's completely fine, then?"



Dox47
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11 Mar 2010, 7:31 pm

Ambivalence wrote:
A handgun is better at killing people than a pool, so more care is required of the owners, is all.


Not if the people in question are young children, from the CDC:

Cause of accidental death Rate per 100,000 children age 1 to 7
Drowning 2.0
Car accident, child passenger in car 1.3 to 2.2
Hit by car while walking 1.3
Fire (not including house fire) 1.2
House fire 1.1
Suffocation 0.6
Fall 0.2
Bicycle 0.1
Poison 0.1
"Unintentional struck by or against" 0.1
Firearm 0.1

I could have phrased my parable better though, what I should have referred to was cases where someone has left the gate open around a fenced pool and a child has subsequently drowned. What is lacking after those far more common tragedies is the calls for the heads of the parents that are being seen here and elsewhere, even though a pool is statistically far more dangerous to children and therefore should be treated that much more carefully. After reading through more of the articles surrounding the Wii gun incident, the standard practice of the gun's owner was to keep it unloaded and inaccessible, and had only taken it down and loaded it to search for a prowler late at night, subsequently leaving it out where the child came across it. Rather than a pattern of negligence, this suggests a one time lapse in judgment, alas with tragic results.

Also during my research I found references to this story from newspapers as far afield as the UK and NZ, where as I doubt a much more common pool drowning incident would have made it beyond the local papers, let alone drawn international attention.


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Dox47
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11 Mar 2010, 7:33 pm

PLA wrote:
About this, does anyone know if the third-party peripheral in the picture has been approved by Nintendo?


Nope, it's an unlicensed Chinese import that goes for about $7, or so my sources say. I've seen similarly realistic looking lightguns over the years for other platforms, though in those older systems the cord coming out of the butt of the gun tended to spoil the illusion a bit.


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11 Mar 2010, 8:21 pm

I have to go along with Dox47and pumibel in that it's hard to imagine any 3 year old being able to actuate the DA trigger pull on that pistol far enough to fire it, especially while it's pointed at her. It's unlikely enough to call it bull$hit right off the bat.
If this fatality had been due to a more commonly fatal household hazard like a pool drowning, poisoning, electrocution, fire / smoke inhalation, suffocation, etc... then we probably wouldn't ever hear about.