Are most Aspies unable to work or live independently?

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Horus
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07 Apr 2010, 11:36 pm

Taupey wrote:
Joe90,

I can see how a super market/grocery would be difficult to work in. I get so exhausted and overwhelmed just going to buy food.

Don't work anywhere fast paced where there are young rowdy people and loud busy crowds. You know what you need better than anyone. Work at something you like. Don't feel pressured to do otherwise. Follow your bliss, Joe.

I wish you the best in finding a good job. Please let me know how you're doing. :)

Taupey



Unfortunately, if your vocational options are limited, you will have a whale of a time finding a job outside of the service industry.

And service-sector jobs often involve little else but young rowdy people (aka....barbarian morons with anti-social personality disorders) and loud busy crowds.


Thanks to the nature of the "free" :roll: market itself, billions of people simply don't have a choice. Oh sure....technically speaking they have a choice. A choice between renting themselves out as bullied and oppressed wage slaves or starvation.

For some of us.....the life of a subsistence farmer or even a hunter/gatherer might be preferable to enslavement at non-neurotypical auschwitzs like...well....every mall or fast-food joint in
America.

But the former are hardly viable options in modern America eh?



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08 Apr 2010, 12:44 am

I am about the same as Francis. I know I don't earn as much as he does but make enough that I could get by on my own. I basicaly went from my parents house to the wifes house. We both have problems hers are physical so we really make a good team.
I remember before we met, trying to even pay the monthly credit card bill, It was too much for me. I would sometimes over pay it by a couple of hundred.
Had a period of about three years not doing my income tax returns, finally my brother started doing it for me. There is no way I could look after all the monthly house hold things she does. I sometimes tease the wife that I will die before she does, she tells me I had better not. Boy I'd be in trouble with out her. It will be twenty years together soon.
It is sure a sobering thought I know I would have the place in a huge mess with the utilities cut off in no time at all with out her.



aspiegirl2
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08 Apr 2010, 2:22 am

I'm going to college but I still feel younger than others because I haven't gotten out of the "real" dorms yet. I have had a paid job during the summers, though. I'm hoping that I could learn to be independent and happy but I think that I may need a bit of extra help in order to achieve that. I have trouble with focusing and time management and I think that I would have trouble paying bills. Fortunately, you could pay most bills online; it's the snail-mail ones that I may worry about. I'm also scared of credit cards. Unfortunately, someone has to have a credit card before they could stay in an apartment or get a loan on a house. Of course, I understand it's a trust-issue. What about people that purposely don't want a credit card, that want to pay for things with their own money? I never understood how there can't be another way to express your trust to others besides signing your life away to a credit card company. Anyways, back to the subject, I just have a ways to go; a bit more than my neurotypical friends I would have to say. My parents raised us kids to be independent and happy, so hopefully things work out. Adjust and adapt they always say. Or I guess most people say "live and learn".


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08 Apr 2010, 10:22 am

Horus wrote:
Taupey wrote:
Joe90,

I can see how a super market/grocery would be difficult to work in. I get so exhausted and overwhelmed just going to buy food.

Don't work anywhere fast paced where there are young rowdy people and loud busy crowds. You know what you need better than anyone. Work at something you like. Don't feel pressured to do otherwise. Follow your bliss, Joe.

I wish you the best in finding a good job. Please let me know how you're doing. :)

Taupey



Unfortunately, if your vocational options are limited, you will have a whale of a time finding a job outside of the service industry.

And service-sector jobs often involve little else but young rowdy people (aka....barbarian morons with anti-social personality disorders) and loud busy crowds.


Thanks to the nature of the "free" :roll: market itself, billions of people simply don't have a choice. Oh sure....technically speaking they have a choice. A choice between renting themselves out as bullied and oppressed wage slaves or starvation.

For some of us.....the life of a subsistence farmer or even a hunter/gatherer might be preferable to enslavement at non-neurotypical auschwitzs like...well....every mall or fast-food joint in
America.

But the former are hardly viable options in modern America eh?


I understand what you're say Horus. But there really is no sense in him putting himself through torture. He needs to explore all his options. I don't know what services are available in his area but here where I live they have an organization that hires disabled people for numerous types of work, Eggleston Services. Social Security also has vocational training available for people with disabilities and they help with job placement. But its called something rehabilitation services. I went there to get a job but they would not help me until my doctors released me to work. There are places you can rent an apartment of your own at reduced rent. The apt/flats are only available to over 55 years of age and disabled adults any age. They have large van buses that go to the super markets/grocery/walmart/etc several days during the week. They have other various trips/activities available. You have to apply and go on a waiting list to get in. But they have more than one place to apply to. I make too much money myself to do that. I create Pagan themed art and sell it. If you cannot find a job that is right for you, sometimes you can create your own. I would also like to work as an consultant/advisor and paint murals, furniture and windows. I have no idea what's available to Joe, hopefully there is some services he could use to help with finding or training for the right job.



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09 Apr 2010, 12:00 pm

Thanks for your replys. I am a calm, happy person, but when it comes to having to find a job, I turn into a nervous wreck. My mind is like one of those children's storybooks, where when someone feels alone, everything seems big, scary, horrifying, freaky, adventurous, ect, and then at the end of the story, they are found or saved, and look back and it's just an ordinary, friendly, lovely environment or something. Do you get what I mean? So when I think about starting a job, say, in a supermarket, I think of all the people there will be big ogres ignoring me and pushing me into a corner, and the warehouse will be freezing cold and ghostly and loud freaky noises what will make me jump out my skin, and on the shop floor there will little children having nasty tantrums near me - only my imagination at the moment turns them into big, massive, loud monsters, and the shelves will be like a big, tall, dark prison walls where I will have to walk in and out every single day on my own, and when I finally come out of this big, strange, mysterious place, there will be hoards and hoards of teenagers hanging out right outside the shop taking drugs, smoking. . . Oh my god, this will be a disaster for me. This may sound really babyish, but I am scared. I know this is all in my mind, and it won't be like what I've just said. It will be a friendly supermarket with friendly people and nice customers. . . But everywhere I look on the internet and in books it says ''all aspies get bullied and shunned at work. . .'' That has frightened the s**t out of me. I never got bullied at school and I don't want the record to be broken by being bullied at work.



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09 Apr 2010, 12:09 pm

I stay at home where I live with my husband and daughter. I think I wouldn't be able to live just on my own...


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Horus
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09 Apr 2010, 7:10 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Thanks for your replys. I am a calm, happy person, but when it comes to having to find a job, I turn into a nervous wreck. My mind is like one of those children's storybooks, where when someone feels alone, everything seems big, scary, horrifying, freaky, adventurous, ect, and then at the end of the story, they are found or saved, and look back and it's just an ordinary, friendly, lovely environment or something. Do you get what I mean? So when I think about starting a job, say, in a supermarket, I think of all the people there will be big ogres ignoring me and pushing me into a corner, and the warehouse will be freezing cold and ghostly and loud freaky noises what will make me jump out my skin, and on the shop floor there will little children having nasty tantrums near me - only my imagination at the moment turns them into big, massive, loud monsters, and the shelves will be like a big, tall, dark prison walls where I will have to walk in and out every single day on my own, and when I finally come out of this big, strange, mysterious place, there will be hoards and hoards of teenagers hanging out right outside the shop taking drugs, smoking. . . Oh my god, this will be a disaster for me. This may sound really babyish, but I am scared. I know this is all in my mind, and it won't be like what I've just said. It will be a friendly supermarket with friendly people and nice customers. . . But everywhere I look on the internet and in books it says ''all aspies get bullied and shunned at work. . .'' That has frightened the sh** out of me. I never got bullied at school and I don't want the record to be broken by being bullied at work.



All Aspies don't get bullied and shunned at work.....that's simply another myth. It's probably accurate to say that a disproportionate number of them do...but certainly not all. Bullying itself seems to peak in Junior HS or the first two years of HS. Not all aspies have the same social (or any other deficits for that matter) deficits and some seem to have none at all. If you weren't bullied at school, i'd say the chances are pretty good you won't be bullied at work. Nonethless....I completely relate to your issues here....I dread being around large crowds of people. I do everything in my power to avoid people in general, but I WAS bullied and shunned in school and mostly just shunned in the workplace. Sounds like sensory issues are more problematic for you than any social ones. My own sensory issues really aren't too troubling, so I honestly can't give you any advice regarding how you might address them. Though it does sound like you're dealing with some social anxiety and that in itself might be quite amenable to treatment. That's not necessarily related to AS either...there's plenty of neurotypicals who have serious problems with social anxiety. If you want to work, i'd say you should talk to a psychologist first and tell them everything you've related here. If you're in the US, you might want to consider applying for services at your local office of vocational rehab. If you're not eligible (and you have AS, I can't see why you wouldn't be) for services, it usually takes VR awhile to determine that and part of determination process should include one or more visits to a psychologist. The psychologist should be able to develope a treatment plan for you and make some recommendations about employment. They will send this info to VR as well and then you will most likely be placed on a waiting list for VR services. VR can send you to prospective employers who are already aware of the fact that they're dealing with a potential employee who requires certain accomodations. Thus....you won't have to worry about the "to disclose or not to disclose" dilemma. That's never really an easy decision for alot of people with any kind of "hidden" disability. Also...if you can...I would talk others with AS in your area who have dealt with voc rehab. There may be several VR offices in your area and since even many *professionals* are largely ignorant of AS, or at least the issues we have, others with AS might be able to direct you to the local VR office they've had the most success at.



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09 Apr 2010, 7:22 pm

I will be able to live independantly eventually. But I would rather live with someone else maybe a friend or 2, I would feel lost on my own what with my executive functioning problems and not being good with making important arrangements on the phone. And if I lived completely on my own I might lose friends or not make them as often because I'd be spending so much time alone in my house because when I don't see many people I lose motivation and I end up losing practice and have to learn it all again.


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10 Apr 2010, 3:20 am

MONKEY wrote:
I will be able to live independantly eventually. But I would rather live with someone else maybe a friend or 2, I would feel lost on my own what with my executive functioning problems and not being good with making important arrangements on the phone. And if I lived completely on my own I might lose friends or not make them as often because I'd be spending so much time alone in my house because when I don't see many people I lose motivation and I end up losing practice and have to learn it all again.


Your right. I would do better myself if I was living with someone who also has AS/HFA. Me and my son got along great because I believe we both have AS/HFA. One of my foster brothers who I suspect has AS/HFA lived with me for a while when he broke up with his girlfriend. And we got along great as well. We would do things together sometimes and then we would do our own thing. I do not slip into depression and lose my motivation when someone is living with me as quickly as I do when I am living alone. I can relate to what you're saying about feeling rusty with your social skills if you haven't been out practicing them on a regular bases. I'm the same way.



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10 Apr 2010, 3:32 am

Horus wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Thanks for your replys. I am a calm, happy person, but when it comes to having to find a job, I turn into a nervous wreck. My mind is like one of those children's storybooks, where when someone feels alone, everything seems big, scary, horrifying, freaky, adventurous, ect, and then at the end of the story, they are found or saved, and look back and it's just an ordinary, friendly, lovely environment or something. Do you get what I mean? So when I think about starting a job, say, in a supermarket, I think of all the people there will be big ogres ignoring me and pushing me into a corner, and the warehouse will be freezing cold and ghostly and loud freaky noises what will make me jump out my skin, and on the shop floor there will little children having nasty tantrums near me - only my imagination at the moment turns them into big, massive, loud monsters, and the shelves will be like a big, tall, dark prison walls where I will have to walk in and out every single day on my own, and when I finally come out of this big, strange, mysterious place, there will be hoards and hoards of teenagers hanging out right outside the shop taking drugs, smoking. . . Oh my god, this will be a disaster for me. This may sound really babyish, but I am scared. I know this is all in my mind, and it won't be like what I've just said. It will be a friendly supermarket with friendly people and nice customers. . . But everywhere I look on the internet and in books it says ''all aspies get bullied and shunned at work. . .'' That has frightened the sh** out of me. I never got bullied at school and I don't want the record to be broken by being bullied at work.



All Aspies don't get bullied and shunned at work.....that's simply another myth. It's probably accurate to say that a disproportionate number of them do...but certainly not all. Bullying itself seems to peak in Junior HS or the first two years of HS. Not all aspies have the same social (or any other deficits for that matter) deficits and some seem to have none at all. If you weren't bullied at school, i'd say the chances are pretty good you won't be bullied at work. Nonethless....I completely relate to your issues here....I dread being around large crowds of people. I do everything in my power to avoid people in general, but I WAS bullied and shunned in school and mostly just shunned in the workplace. Sounds like sensory issues are more problematic for you than any social ones. My own sensory issues really aren't too troubling, so I honestly can't give you any advice regarding how you might address them. Though it does sound like you're dealing with some social anxiety and that in itself might be quite amenable to treatment. That's not necessarily related to AS either...there's plenty of neurotypicals who have serious problems with social anxiety. If you want to work, i'd say you should talk to a psychologist first and tell them everything you've related here. If you're in the US, you might want to consider applying for services at your local office of vocational rehab. If you're not eligible (and you have AS, I can't see why you wouldn't be) for services, it usually takes VR awhile to determine that and part of determination process should include one or more visits to a psychologist. The psychologist should be able to develope a treatment plan for you and make some recommendations about employment. They will send this info to VR as well and then you will most likely be placed on a waiting list for VR services. VR can send you to prospective employers who are already aware of the fact that they're dealing with a potential employee who requires certain accomodations. Thus....you won't have to worry about the "to disclose or not to disclose" dilemma. That's never really an easy decision for alot of people with any kind of "hidden" disability. Also...if you can...I would talk others with AS in your area who have dealt with voc rehab. There may be several VR offices in your area and since even many *professionals* are largely ignorant of AS, or at least the issues we have, others with AS might be able to direct you to the local VR office they've had the most success at.


I understand what you're saying Joe. You're not alone, I can honestly say I have experienced social anxiety too. I agree with Horus, he has excellent advice. I wish you the best Joe. Let me know how it goes for you.

Sincerely, Taupey



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05 Jul 2010, 11:41 am

I am actually a girl - but I called myself Joe90 on the forum thing as a nickname because it said not to use my real name. I just thought I'd put this because some people thought I was a boy, and if they see I've written something to do with what girls like, they might have thought I'm a bit of a poofy boy. LOL

The reason why I didn't get bullied at school was because I have never had any habits like rocking backwards and forwards, or muttering to myself, or flapping my hands, or ect. So I never really drew much attention to myself. When people looked at me, I just looked the same as everyone else. I also held a cocky look on my face too, and I when I was a teenager at Big School I walked around with a handbag like all the other girls, instead of a big backpack. So I kept up with the craze and fashion so I never stood out.
When I was at the Junior school (aged 7 to 11) there was a big craze on Beenie Babies, and I never collected Beenie Babies until this craze came out - so of course I started collecting them too, just to keep up with the others. I brought them to school like the others did, and so I felt just as popular as the next person.
Also, I never hung about on my own. I always tried to be with friends. At the Infants school (aged 4 to 7) I sometimes played on my own, but nobody got bullied there. But at the Junior school and the High school I always kept with at least one other person, so the other people in my year never knew I was a tad different. I didn't really have any close friends until my last year, but I had so many nice girls in my class, and we all hung about in a large group with people from other classes, so they didn't really look at me and tell me to piss off or anything. Of course, I did have a few hiccups with friends - but isn't that completely normal and healthy with school girls anyway?
So that's why I never got bullied through school. I got teased sometimes, but because I sometimes laughed at them, and then let them see me being with friends, they calmed down and didn't get worse, so that's nothing to speak of.
And also - I've always been an expert on jokes. I always used to know when somebody was joking with me or being serious with me. If they were joking, I would laugh and enjoy it. If someone was being nasty, I would argue back at them. So that's why nobody bullied me.

But now I've grown up, I feel I've reached my thoughts about self-esteem, and sometimes I feel a tad more sensitive than what I did at school. I've become slightly Agoraphobic, and so I hope this doesn't interfere with employment.



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05 Jul 2010, 2:21 pm

Well, Joe... you certainly write like an Aspie. ;)



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05 Jul 2010, 3:02 pm

I work a full time job at a local grocery store, 5-6 nights a week at a time. I'm still living at home but in the case that something happens I feel I could fare well on my own.

Sometimes I feel my true abilities are being wasted on a simple job and that I'm capable of much more, but if it means being part of the 10% who have gained employment then that's an accomplishment in my book.



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17 Aug 2010, 2:14 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
I live with my parents because I'm 15, but I'm planning to move out at 18 as long as I have the money.

In the long term I plan to be exteremely rich, as in hundreds of millions, and I plan on moving to Monaco (for tax reasons, namely the lack of it, and because there's no crime).

So I'd say I'm gonna be very independant, and I'll have a lot of responsibility as I'm starting businesses to make this money too.


All right, tell me more details. What kind of businesses are you running, what kind of products are you selling, how did you come up with the ideas for your businesses, and how much money did it cost to get started?



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17 Aug 2010, 3:14 pm

I think that most was AS are ABLE to work and/or live independently, but the official statistics (on the former, at least) are not encouraging. The highest percentage of AS adults who have a full-time job i've ever seen was 30%. I've read many studies that place the percentage as low as 12%. Still....I think these studies aren't taking several things into consideration.

For one thing...many younger adults who are in college/uni don't have a full-time job and many don't work at all. Young adults with AS are no exception to this. It would be interesting to see how many 30-plus adults with AS have a full-time job. Also, considering the high unemployment rate (which is not limited to the US) in general over the past few years, there's plenty of people who aren't working full-time.

No matter what....I think it is safe to say that a disproportionately large number of older AS adults are not working full-time (or at all) and/or do not live independently. I am one of those adults, but I HAVE worked full-time in the past and I did live independently (though I have never been entirely financially independent) for 10 years. There's plenty of older AS people in this group who are in a similar situation.


I think part of the problem is that many people with AS have a spotty work history. Many have not been able to obtain or keep jobs due to their social, sensory, executive functioning, etc...issues. When they manage to interview for a job which would be ideal for them, their work history can be a major barrier to actually getting hired regardless of how well the interview itself goes or what skills they possess. There's alot of competition out there these days even for menial, low-paying positions. Employers are naturally going to hire people with a solid work history over someone who hasn't worked for three years or something.

It's even more difficult to get hired these days because almost ALL employers are doing comparatively extensive background checks. They might know everything about you save your blood type or something. If you're someone with Asperger's who also happens to have bad credit because you haven't worked for awhile and you're in debt, good luck getting hired by most employers.

This is where agencies like OVR can be helpful, but they often leave much to be desired as well. OVR will send people to employers who are fully aware of the fact that they're dealing with someone who has a disability and therefore, someone who may not have the most stellar work history, credit, etc...Unfortunately, alot of the employers OVR sends it's clients to are offering unskilled, low-paying positions. Many of their AS clients might have college degrees and/or several skills, but the employment OVR helps them find often qualifies as significant UNDERemployment.

All in all...the employment situation and therefore, economic status, for people with AS and related disorders seems somewhat grim currently. I think the percentage of AS/ASD adults living at, or close to, the poverty level in the US may be similar, if not even higher, than that of African-American adults.



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17 Jun 2017, 2:19 pm

I know I'm reviving an old af thread here; I just wanted to tell my input. I'm 23, female and hold down two jobs. I've done 2 years at uni holding down one job. I live independently, earn enough to pay rent and bills and even own my own car. Learning to drive and going back to university is next on my list (I started learning when I was 17 but then gave it up)