Troubled by the simplest thought

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14 Mar 2010, 9:26 pm

Lately, I've become increasingly obsessed with, and disturbed by, thinking about existence. Other people speak of finding wonder in the small things; to me, they hold beauty, but not wonder, as they are all, as I am, part of the whole of existence. I have read and studied for years, philosophy and theology and science . . . but I have found no answers, and all of my questions can be thrown aside in the face of one.

I'm stuck in a paradoxical thought. Clearly, either I (or something that is generating such an illusion) exists. Whether or not anything is real becomes irrelevant. Something exists, even as the source of a fundamental fallacy of perception.

However, nothing can possibly exist. There is no source for existence. I intentionally leave out the smaller ideas of the universe or the multiverse; those are scientific debates.

Existence is, yet cannot be. And I cannot let the thought be. Maybe I'm too inquisitive here, and I'd find solace in forgetting. Yet I cannot.

Thoughts?

Fuzzy
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14 Mar 2010, 9:54 pm

chaotik_lord wrote:

Thoughts?

Nope.

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Awesomelyglorious
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14 Mar 2010, 10:11 pm

chaotik_lord wrote:

I don't recognize why you don't think anything can exist. A lack of "source" isn't much of an answer either.

If anything that exists requires a source, then the source, being an existing thing, must also have a source. So, an infinite regression. The issue is that this leave us with either an infinite regression or the lack of need for a source. Neither are as absurd as ontological nihilism.

That being said, if nothing exists, how are you sure that the experience exists? The experience also doesn't exist, and the illusion is illusionary. This doesn't make sense, but reason also doesn't exist. After all, if nothing exists, why should logical relations still hold?

Sand
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14 Mar 2010, 10:16 pm

I don't understand what you mean by "exist". It certainly has no relationship to my understanding of the word.

chaotik_lord
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14 Mar 2010, 10:31 pm

Quote:

That's exactly the problem I'm having . . . I simultaneously do believe it exists while not finding any evidence to support this, but I cannot determine why, and to attribute it to personal fallacy would be arrogant and illogical.

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14 Mar 2010, 10:42 pm

chaotik_lord wrote:

Oh, ok, so you don't have evidence for existence?

Why do you need evidence? What other hypothesis are you considering? It seems to me that the existence that you see before you is the only viable hypothesis that you currently know of. Nihilism is the result of always seeking justification. You can't justify everything, because the attempt will either lead you to circular reasoning or an infinite chain of justification. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchhausen_Trilemma So, just go with what seems best so far, and develop your path at what seems apparent, and clarifying this. "Pure reason" is actually the stupidest thing in existence though, despite how much people laud "reason" and "critical thinking".

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15 Mar 2010, 1:25 am

[img][650:500]http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-1177.png[/img]

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ZEGH8578
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15 Mar 2010, 3:26 am

chaotik_lord wrote:

think of it this way:
your meat-brain needs you to find a reason for existence, thats what your thinking about right? why does anything exist.
why did the universe manifest.

consider this: your meat-brain, my meat-brain, all earthly brains are _wired_ to _Seek a reason_ for _what it observes_. this is for . . . Survival! We see blood, we reason, we imagine why is there blood, we associate, and we flee.
We hear a sound, we find the reason for the sound, nearby animal or whatever.
Our brain always must find a reason for something, or we go nuts.

Now.
The universe existed before our brains did.
It doesnt need a reason

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15 Mar 2010, 5:21 am

chaotik_lord wrote:

I simultaneously do believe it exists while not finding any evidence to support this

No evidence? If nothing exists, what am I doing here? Am I invisible or something?

Don't exist, indeed. Hmph!

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Fuzzy
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15 Mar 2010, 5:30 am

DrizzleMan wrote:

chaotik_lord wrote:

I simultaneously do believe it exists while not finding any evidence to support this

No evidence? If nothing exists, what am I doing here? Am I invisible or something?

Don't exist, indeed. Hmph!

I cannot agree nor disagree with you as you do not exist.

In fact, I am not sure why I am talking.

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15 Mar 2010, 5:41 am

Fuzzy wrote:

In fact, I am not sure why I am talking.

Some people simply enjoy the sound of their own voice. Or the sight of their own text, in this case.

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15 Mar 2010, 5:52 am

DrizzleMan wrote:

Fuzzy wrote:

In fact, I am not sure why I am talking.

Some people simply enjoy the sound of their own voice. Or the sight of their own text, in this case.

Thanks for joking with me.

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19 Mar 2010, 7:03 pm

we know things exist because they do. it's pretty silly to deny your own existence since it disproves itself by existing. what you're asking is: 'does everything have a cause, and does everything need a cause in order to exist?' I think I'll be a good humean and say: 'idk, lol'

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