You're not owed respect, Respect is earned

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cubedemon6073
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26 Mar 2010, 10:55 am

If a person is not owed respect at all then it should be logically true to say that parents are not owed respect by their children and the parents have to earn the respect from their children. In this case, the converse is true as well. The children have to earn respect from their parents as well. There is a contradiction though in the certain people's values. These as parents expect their children to have unquestionable obedience and respect for them without having to earn it from the children. This is not only contradictory to the axiom that a person is not owed respect at all and they have to earn it it is also contradictory to the axiom of a person being entitled to nothing. This means a child is expected to take two contradictory statements from the certain folks and believe both at the same time. There is such an inconsistency and contradiction to this.



MichelleRM78
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26 Mar 2010, 11:19 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
If a person is not owed respect at all then it should be logically true to say that parents are not owed respect by their children and the parents have to earn the respect from their children. In this case, the converse is true as well. The children have to earn respect from their parents as well. There is a contradiction though in the certain people's values. These as parents expect their children to have unquestionable obedience and respect for them without having to earn it from the children. This is not only contradictory to the axiom that a person is not owed respect at all and they have to earn it it is also contradictory to the axiom of a person being entitled to nothing. This means a child is expected to take two contradictory statements from the certain folks and believe both at the same time. There is such an inconsistency and contradiction to this.


Do people actually believe this? I don't expect my kids to have unquestionable obedience or respect for me. I expect to have to earn their respect and I respect them questioning authority (as long as it is done in a reasonably, respectful way). If what I tell them has no basis, they have a right to question that. If I am treating them with hostility of disrespect, I don't expect them to respect me simply because I am their mother.



memesplice
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26 Mar 2010, 11:22 am

Trick is knowing the value implied in your respect , who to confer that respect to, and when.



AceOfSpades
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26 Mar 2010, 11:32 am

So true. Respect is pretty much an entitlement in society. Kids aren't stupid either, they know you're sending mixed messages when you pretty much expect them to unquestionably follow every order, yet tell you that everyone else has to earn respect.



Willard
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26 Mar 2010, 11:46 am

Deep, abiding and reverent respect may only be earned over the long term, but a certain amount of human dignity should be assumed as part of any social contract and respected by default unless and until it is proven to be undeserved. This includes expectation of honesty and nonviolence and deference to life experience acquired with age. Otherwise we live on a planet of savages.

Hopefully parents maintain the respect of their offspring, but the notion that they should be expected to earn it is the immature attitude of a belligerent child, unwilling to accept that parental decisions made on his/her behalf may be in his/her best interests whether or not he/she is able or willing to perceive that wisdom in their current less-than-fully developed state. Children, aside from basic human dignity and the sanctity of life cannot earn true respect from anyone until they begin to display psychological and emotional maturity.

Bottom line: No one may assume to be owed respect, but merit of respect should be assumed until an individual proves themselves unworthy of it.



MichelleRM78
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26 Mar 2010, 11:54 am

Willard wrote:
Hopefully parents maintain the respect of their offspring, but the notion that they should be expected to earn it is the immature attitude of a belligerent child, unwilling to accept that parental decisions made on his/her behalf may be in his/her best interests whether or not he/she is able or willing to perceive that wisdom in their current less-than-fully developed state. Children, aside from basic human dignity and the sanctity of life cannot earn true respect from anyone until they begin to display psychological and emotional maturity.
.


Hmmm. I disagree with most of this. A child can believe that parental decisions on his/her behalf, and the child should believe that. I don't think that has anything to do with respect, however. I don't think a small child demands that the parents earn their respect (most can't even put the word to the meaning). However, if parents are doing things that are destructive or contradicting, the child will react accordingly. I also don't believe that a child cannot earn respect until they display maturity of any form. I may be misunderstanding what you are saying here, but children can be respected and should be respected in each and every developmental stage.



CockneyRebel
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26 Mar 2010, 12:38 pm

That seems like a contradiction to me.


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FredOak3
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26 Mar 2010, 12:39 pm

re·spect (r-spkt)
tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects
1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.
3. To relate or refer to; concern.
n.
1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem.
2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.
3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.
4. respects Polite expressions of consideration or deference:

So I don't know if I would use the term "earned" as much as I would say acquired. The relationship between parent and child shouldn't be based on a reward basis...you do this and you will earn my respect. It should something that just happens...because you did that I have a new sense of respect for you.

It's hard to explain, earned has a sense of tangibility and I don't think true respect is like that, it should just happen, it should be a feeling, an emotion.



memesplice
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26 Mar 2010, 12:48 pm

You can respect the rights of someone without respecting the person.

You can confer respect to a person without having any understanding of the abstract notion of rights.

Respect is a very general term.

Respecting children is one aspect of loving them , but it doesn't adequately explain what you are "doing" in relation to loving them.

Love of course is an even bigger generic term, but I don't think it can be approached by reductive logic unless you start evaluating it from various approaches in human psychology . With reference to the OP makes sense to use shorthand notions of love for children, of which fundamental human respect particularly for rights, dignity and well being, even "happiness" seems to be an automatic conference by reasonably loving parents.



CowboyFromHell
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26 Mar 2010, 12:51 pm

Same with being a manager. Your employees are entitled to follow your commands, but they're not always gonna do it or respect you. We just got two managers in the past few weeks. A new grocery manager who is in training for this, and a new assistant store manager. The grocery manager on his first day walked around and introduced himself to everyone. Also is very friendly and doesn't hesitate to compliment you on your job. I wish he really was my boss, rather than finishing his training here and being assigned to his own store. Now on the other hand, the new assistant store manager who is 2nd in command overall, has been here since Saturday, which is almost a week. I've only gotten one glance at that dude, and this was yesterday morning. Hell, at the moment I was blocking (organizing the shelf neatly) at the end of an isle and he was standing there just a few feet away talking to the grocery manager who actually is my boss, and he was looking right at me, but didn't say a word to me.

Who will I follow orders from without question and have genuine respect for? This is exactly the same with parenting, in my opinion. There are really two sides to it, it's what you're supposed to do but the respect and desire to follow is better if there is a genuine connection.


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26 Mar 2010, 1:39 pm

I'm with memesplice on this.

From my perspective, every individual person is entitled to respect. I may disagree with your opinion, but I respect that it is as valuable as my own. I may disapprove of your behaviour, but that does not diminish your inherent worth as a human being.

On the other hand, if we are speaking of respect in terms of admiration or deference, then clearly we are looking at a different arena. Clearly I am not entitled to anyone's admiration or deference without merit.


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jeffhermy
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26 Mar 2010, 1:58 pm

There are some children in the world who respect their parents on and off because they know they're the only one's they can do it to. In society if you respect someone and then you don't the only thing to do is keep them out of their life. Doing that to a parent and keeping them in your life only shows how much that child trusts them or believes in them. When a child says "No!" to a parent they are testing to see what they can get away with, it's not a question of whether they respect them or not.

In a sense parents have earned a child's trust and respect by not going ballistic every time they cried as an infant and beat them to a pulp. They further earn respect long-term through 3-12 and is crucial in the teen years, well that's not true, crucial all the time. You won't be the perfect parent but you'll make it through all the madness.



memesplice
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26 Mar 2010, 2:30 pm

Jeffhemy- When my kids got to about seventeen they started treating me like a fellow adult . They
had to, I had them working with me sometimes and doing dangerous stuff. It was good environment to make transition between child-parent to adult-parent. I literally put one in situations were if he didn't tell me to "fck off and don't do it like this", he would have died. One was 50 feet up in freezing conditions. Extreme but worked.

Very good mate now and explains to me all sorts of NT stuff that is fascinating. No lasting trauma.



FredOak3
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26 Mar 2010, 2:39 pm

I would agree that being treated as a parent and then being treated as an adult/parent is a good transition for any child to make as they mature. Having 6 kids ranging from 32 to 5 I have seen and can see that change happen as each has grown up.

What annoys me are parents who try to be the children's friend. Sorry in my opinion that just doesn't work. They try to be the "cool" parent. I think that takes away from the respect factor that should be present in a good parent/child relationship.



memesplice
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26 Mar 2010, 2:48 pm

When they get older, not when six or seven. You have to let them go and come back.

It's great when they come round , bring girlfriend , sit watch video and talk. Like being an NT really,
except you actually want to be in their company.



Callista
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26 Mar 2010, 2:50 pm

We probably have three definitions of respect here that are confusing the argument. Possibly more.

1. To "respect a person's rights" is to treat them with civility, while conscious of your shared status as sentient entities.

2. To "respect someone" in the sense of having been impressed by their character; akin to giving someone your loyalty.

3. To "respect authority" in the sense of following the social customs set by authority figures in regards to how one should interact with them.


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