Why Asperger's should be separated from Autism

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The whole "CURE" debate.

The primary group who are anti-cure are Aspies. I don't need to go into the reasons, I'm sure everyone here is well aware of why Aspies are happy to have their disorder, there is thread upon thread on here about it.

But they have no concept AT ALL about the struggles of lower functioning Autistics and are getting in the way or doctors and family members being able to progress in their understanding and communication with their LFA loved ones.

Aspies have a misconception that LFAs are just as happy with their disorder as they are. How very misguided they all are. I strongly suggest to any Aspie that they spend a decent amount of time with an LFA person (no not just passing someone by in the street), see what they go through and see what their loved ones go through. Basically, a lot of Aspies need to get a bloody clue! I have never seen so much ignorance on this issue as I have at this place, and with 30,000+ members, I can imagine there are many Aspies offline that are also so misguided.

Argue all you want about whether ASPERGER'S SYNDROME should be cured or treated, but seriously, this whole AUTISM generalisation deal has got to stop. For a group of people (aspies) who are usually so intenet on being so specific, I don't even know how they can make such a generalisation when the two things are clearly WORLDS apart.

Ok, had to vent that. Been having some inane issues about this over the past couple of weeks (outside of this forum as well!) and someone has to say this stuff. This ignorance of reality can not continue.

I don't know what you mean by anti cure. Anti cure as in no cure to autism or anti cure as in no cure to their condition. I don't want a cure to mine but I don't care for the cure for others because I know there are aspies and auties out there who want a cure to theirs. They should have that right and taking the cure away would be taking that right away from them.

Yes I know what LFA is and the struggles they have. I wouldn't want those difficulties and live that way.

While on the same spectrum, auties and aspies are on different parts of it. They are different. I am in between L.F.A. and H.F.A./Aspergers, and I am sometimes tempted to take a cure if it were available. There are gifts that come with autism, but they are also disabilities. I've been trained for many years in order to hide these disabilities, and even then, there are those that I am simply unable to hide. If an irreversible cure became available, I would have to think long and hard about taking it. If a reversible cure were available, I would try it in a second depending upon the risks.

On the plus side of them being labeled the same, aspies will be able (hopefully) to get the few accommodations that are now given to "full blown autistic" people.

I wasn't really adressing people on your end of the spectrum, only Aspies. If you are MFA then I'm certain you would have some personal knowledge on what struggles you have that Aspies do not understand.

I have no idea why you would conclude as much. You should consider the fact that ASDs are in fact heritible such that if someone has AS they are more likely to have a relative with Autism Disorder than someone who does not have AS. The fact is many of us have people with Autism Disorder in our families. I know I do.

Please explain how people with AS are interfering in doctors and families being able to understand something or other.


Your accusations about generalizations are deeply ironic.

Well that's bloody rich. You accuse us of assuming that low functionng autistics are as as easy as ours, then go on to tell us how awful their lives are. Sounds like you seem to believe there's only one answer to the question concerning all LFAs, and you have it. And WE'RE making generalizations?

There are LFA (I hate using that word) people here too that don't want to be cured. Are they generalizing? No wait, they're actually experiencing the same things.
If the cure is made and the individual is able to choose if they want it then I'm all for it. I'm not for families forcing their children into it though. Even if they are non-verbal. There's other ways that they can communicate.

The way Aspies talk about cures and treatments imply that they are unnecessary. Without such treatments relatives of LFA people would not be able to communicate or understand their Autistic loved ones. Treatments get better and better and sometimes occasionally progress to being cures of sorts. Like I said, these treatments are what open the doorways to communication and understanding, Aspies that are anti-cure/treatment are actually anti-communication and understanding.

Maybe an Aspie who had to deal with the daily humilation of pissing on himself (something that often happens to my older brother and embarrases him to no end) might have a different opinion. Only treatments and cures can stop my brother pissing on himself so he doesn't have to feel embarrassed. I'm only using this examply because it is easily relateable, please understand that it runs alot deeper than a bit of piss on the carpet.

This rant of mine has sprung up mainly because of things I have read by Aspie members here. Are you going to make me search around for a bunch of direct quotes to prove my point? I'll do it mate, I'm free time central this week! I know you spend alot of time here and read alot of threads, are you really going to play ignorant to what I'm saying? I have read your posts around here and I KNOW you're smarter than that.

And I know there's irony, or even hipocracy in some of what I say, but well, there's irony and hipocracy in Aspies side of this issue as well, so I'll take yours if you take mine, it is the nature of personal anger to not have the logic wheels turning as fast as usual, whether you're NT or Aspie.

The LFA people on here have every right to express their right to not be cured of their debilitating symptoms. And how lucky they are to be able to come to a place like that and do that. Most of the LFA cats I know don't quite have the capabilities.

Do you not understand that pretty much the only wayto get an Autistic child into treatment is to force them into it? They don't KNOW that it's good for them. It's like school, do children say to their parents "I love school I want to go back every day" no, most of them hate it, but the parents make them go because they know it is what is best for the child. But of course any child would rather just play all day, and an LFA child would rather be left alone. Parents of Autistic children get their child treatment because it is in their best interest. Development of these treatments is why parents of Autistics don't only have the option to lock up their kids in insitutions anymore, they have an option to treat the symptoms and make the situation manageable. Do Aspies really think LFAs should be denied treatment simply cause it seems like they don't wanna do it? COME. ON!! !! !! !! !! If that's the case, lets just let all kids do whatever they want all the time, no school, no anything! If you're not gunna let low functioning Autistics aquire skills they need, then nobody should have this luxury.

So what? The only people who should be making decisions about such things are those who have the good sense to access an appropriate body of information and to make an informed decision on that basis. Any such person will not be interferred with by someone implying that a cure or treatment is unnecessary as they will have access to the appropriate information to make an appropriate decision in the particular circumstances.

That is nonsense. People can be anti-cure without being anti-communication. You might consider that a possible effect of someone being anti-cure is being anti-communication, but that is simply your personal opinion.


Maybe some "Aspies" would, but maybe some would not, just as some individuals with Autism Disorder who wear diapers for this reason (not sure why your brother will not wear them as it stops the piss running down the leg...perhaps sensory issues prevent him from doing so...) claim to not want a cure either...


I am not smart enough to know what you are on about in these comments. What kind of quotes are you on about? No need to actually quote, just give some kind of hint as to what kind of general content you are referring to, preferably with an explanation as to what it has to do with my comments.


It is not possible to sensibly address these comments. Many with Aspergers Syndrome do want a cure, many with Autism Disorder do not. Your generalizations in this area are to such an extreme that they divorce your commentary from reality.

You seem to equate any treatment with a cure. They aren't the same, and I've not seen anyone saying a "100% hands-off don't-teach-the-kid-anything-ever" approach is what being against a cure means.

Not wanting a cure is not the same thing as desiring stagnation. Teaching skills, even with ABA (depending on what it's used to teach), and other things is in no way the contra-indicated by not wanting a cure.

As far as people pissing on themselves, here is how one person dealt with it:

http://thiswayoflife.org/blog/index.php?s=diaper

Happy? HAPPY to have my DISORDER? I am no more HAPPY about having Autism than I would be about having ANY disorder that caused me ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, and SOCIAL DYSFUNCTION, any more than I would be HAPPY about being paraplegic. Having Autism SUCKS - but I am at least functional enough to understand that reprogramming my brain would eliminate WHO I AM.

Would I like to be free of my dysfunctions? You bet I would, but AT WHAT COST? I completely understand how not pissing oneself would be a boon to every day life, but as I've pointed out before, a LOBOTOMY might have that effect, but would it improve my quality of life to make me a slobbering vegetable? NO. The difference is, I am able to VERBALIZE that conundrum where others are not. Before you make decisions involving the cognitive state of another YOU should have to LIVE with their handicaps.

If a 'cure' means becoming a different person, so much so that you can't even remember what it was like to be who you were, to think as you did, to be THE PERSON YOU ONCE WERE, then it is not a CURE - it's a transformation into being someone else. You may THINK that's a gift to your loved one, but imagine if it were FORCED upon you. To be MADE to be like everyone else for the CONVENIENCE of those around you.

What you are suggesting is not only Science Fiction - the restructuring of specific parts of the brain even as they are being formed in-utero, is wishing for the so-called 'loved ones' in your life to be made into mirrors of YOU in order to ease YOUR own inconvenience.

What you don't seem to even try to grasp is that human science is not anywhere near the level of being able to perform such genetic restructuring. The best it can do at this point is to recognize the genetic patterns early, to ELIMINATE any fetus showing the possibility of such handicaps.



If understanding and communication were REALLY your goal, you wouldn't be preaching ALTERING their brain structure to make them easier to deal with. You don't learn to understand and communicate with other people by insisting that they BECOME LIKE YOU so it's easier for YOU.



That's the real issue for you, isn't it? WHAT THEIR LOVED ONES GO THROUGH. You have far less comprehension of what LFAs are going through inside their heads than WE do, but that doesn't matter - it's ultimately about what you, the precious LOVED ONES go through. Because your Autistic relatives are such a BURDEN to you poor normies. Gods forbid you should have to endure another day of TAKING CARE OF SOMEONE OTHER THAN YOURSELVES. Anyone who can't soldier through without your assistance is not worth having around. They couldn't possibly have anything to contribute that might require your learning another language to understand.

And not only have I known LFA individuals, I've seen the SAME attitudes expressed towards family members with Alzheimer's Disease, who were once completely functional but now can no longer fend for themselves. I've seen how they are treated as burdens, as useless baggage who can't legally be euthanized out of existence for a family member's convenience even when that family member owes their LIFE AND EXISTENCE to that now handicapped individual.

DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU. If you found yourself in a world in which 'normal' communication and behavior were difficult and frustrating for you, would you want to be transformed into someone you couldn't even recognize as yourself, or worse, eliminated as useless and burdensome? Before you judge others with the same disabilities, but fewer physical limitations as your LFA family members, perhaps you should walk in OUR shoes and at least find out what the central disabilities really are.

Aspergers is separate from autism genetically. Blame needs to go to the majority of "experts" in the field. It's their fault they are choosing to ignore and manipulate results from research.

I agree with having Aspies seperated from LFA's. I'm an Aspie and my brother is a LFA so I've lived and seen the differences my whole life. I can get a job, a girlfriend, buy a house, etc. And my brother? He's in a home with other autistic residences, can not get a paying job, can't drive a car, etc. If my brother could speak sentences I'm sure he'd say "I HATE THIS". But then again maybe he doesn't?

I'm split on them finding a cure. In one way I would be happy for those who WANT to change. But in another....what if they don't? LFA's really don't have any say in the matter, do they? We, as Aspies, have a choice (if there was a "cure"). Personally........I really don't know if being an NT would make me any happier. *shrugs*

You're always dumping your frustration on us here, it's not really fair. Everyone's doing their best.

I know of ASD people in two ways, on WP and in real life. The people on WP have all kinds of diagnoses, all kinds of disability levels and all kinds of points of view. It's not possible to generalize about them. The ASD people I know in real life are very severely handicapped, none of them would be able to post on WP. One of them has an Asperger's diagnosis and two of them don't have diagnoses that I know of other than some form of retardation but one of them would probably be considered HFA and one LFA.

Stereotyping any one of these groups or individuals is counterproductive and probably destructive, not just for us but for you too. You need to find some other way to deal with your frustration KoS.

This whole fallacy about "speaking for other people" has got to stop. I don't intend to do so and neither do the vast majority of autistic self-advocates. When we insist on things for the entire Spectrum, what we're insisting on are basic human rights--the right not to be mistreated, to be given decent education, to be given a decent chance at happiness.

What we believe, for the most part, is that the lack of disability is not the primary goal. That means that if you have to choose between your non-verbal child gaining the ability to use the toilet, and his happiness, then you do not force him to learn to use the toilet. (For the most part, if it's so insanely stressful for him that it makes him unhappy, he's going to end up dropping everything else to learn anyway, so it's not even a good therapeutic decision to make. Diapers = NOT the end of the world. Besides, there are intermediate options like teaching him to change himself. I use potty-training as an example here because it's the thing that I see most often used as an excuse to say, "But he NEEDS a cure! He's in diapers!")

What we don't believe, for the most part, is that autistic people shouldn't be educated. Of course they should be--that's one of the biggest goals that the autistic rights movement has! The style of education, however, is the important thing. Do you educate with the intent to make the child as NT-like and unoffensive as possible? Or do you educate with the aim of teaching skills that will be useful to him, done in his own way, with his own thinking style--however odd they happen to look?

Acceptance is another big goal. Most of the problems autistic people face don't come from autism; they come from a society that doesn't accept different, usually disabled people whose actions they can't predict. Positive awareness is important, to teach people what autistic people are like, what to expect, and how to interact with us so we can understand each other. Getting autistic people into the workplace, when they can profitably work, and into the community, whether or not they can, is important because for every autistic person successfully working or interacting with others in social organizations like clubs and churches, there are a hundred NTs who are exposed to autism and subconsciously realize, "Oh, so that's what autism is. I can predict that. I know how to interact with that person now. Autism isn't so foreign anymore." The more of us get out there, the easier it will be for others to do so.

Cure isn't even that big of an issue with the autism-rights movement. There is no cure; so it isn't even an actual issue. It's the "cure mentality", the idea that everything else has to fall by the wayside in favor of cure, that we don't like. When you search for prenatal tests, you say it's better not to live at all than to live as an autistic person. When you take a child from doctor to doctor, you say that it's better to risk experimental treatments and lose your childhood than to be autistic. When you push therapy for sixty hours a week, you say that it's better to be burned out and depressed than to be autistic. When you insist that things be learned the NT way, you're saying there's only one way to learn and one way to think and all others are invalid. The "cure mentality" is a problem that has nothing to do with functioning level.