Ethics of Impersonating Normies...

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OK,

I've been around the block a few times and clearly I am not one of the lads. Up until now I haven't seen any reason for trying to come on the air as a normie, although, frankly, I believe there were countless reasons. But I looked the other way, which in my case was not the road to the top. On the contrary.

Today I'm uncomfortably near rock bottom and I've been offered the opportunity of attending a day centre. In moments of optimism, I believe this could be a first move on a long road to respectable, gainful employment, on the condition that I give off discreetly convincing airs of utter, unthreatening normality. Briefly, I want them to believe I'm just like everyone else, because I see no other way not to end up on the street. I want them to read me as a lost sheep who by stark effort of will is rejoining the fold.

And I don't want anyone's blessing, but any persuasive rationalisations to smother my dysfunctional conscience, would be very welcome indeed


J

It hurts when normies impersonate me, so I wouldn't do the same, to them.

I think he means faking being NT not mocking. Feel free to correct me though.

OK the question of acting NT. While I know that some people here can not pull off this trick some of us here can act normal some of the time.

You need to consider what is in your best interests and the moral issues if any with what you are doing. If you could escape from being unemployed by learning a few social graces and trying to blend in, then it could well be a good idea for you to fake being NT ("normal"). The thing you need to understand is that the members of the AS community have oftein had a raw deal in life. This is becuase the NT majority include some people who torment and otherwise mistreat those who are different.

For many people with AS they have required to spend a lifetime in a hostile environment trying to blend in, I am a great fan of the idea of "be the grey man". If you dress like the locals, act like the locals, look like you know where you are going and do not stand out then most people just leave you alone to get on with it. I have spent weeks on holiday in different parts of europe where I dressed like a local and blended in, and went off and enjoyed the big outdoors / the culture of the place.

If by blending in you are able to make some steps towards the social and mental wellbeing associated with getting a job then I would suggest you try and do it. Just make sure you do not lose your moral compass at any point. Never do or say anything which harms another aspie or gives those on the spectrum a bad name.

Ah, there's the rub. That 'briefly' part. Because if you achieve what you're suggesting, you'll remain employed only so long as the mask remains convincing. Your mileage may vary, but for me that's about one full year of faking it, until the appearance of anything resembling normalcy wears rapidly thin to transparent and the torches and pitchforks come out.

I wish you the best of luck with your plan, but if it doesn't work out, you can always apply for assistance. In the meantime, seek Mental Health counseling, inquire about a formal diagnosis (specify that you want to be tested, not given an assessment opinion), then when the job ends, you can file for Disability. And don't put it off just because you get the job - from Day 1 the clock will be ticking down to Termination Day.

I understand getting a raw deal. Mine wasn't far from it, although I've been told continually that the whole thing depends on how I elect to 'take' things. Such is very much NT consensus on just about anything not weighing them down; as far as I can make out, AND in my neck of the woods.

That consensus is wrong. There's no way in life I'm ever going to feel comfortable in a crowd (which by my reckoning is more than two people). I don't get to elect the rampant anxiety crowds trigger in me. I can often guess verbally what's going on in other people's minds/hearts; in the specific sense that my predictions often turn out correct. But when I'm guessing I have a sense there's something I miss out on. Actually experiencing those feelings...

There's a presumption that you do share the 'feelings of the moment'. What I mean by impersonation is: omitting to unseat that presumption. I suspect this is dishonest on some level. That makes me uneasy.

Maybe impersonation is the wrong term. It could be that dramatic perrformance is the issue. Re-read Goffman?

Thanks for replying. Obviously there's a lot to think through.

J

Well first you must know they have these rules they usually tend to follow and they go something like this.

1. They expect people to make eye contact at least some of the time, and always on greeting.

2. They expect you to shake their hand and say "Hi, I'm (insert first name, sometimes last as well)" when meeting for the first time. Or you can say something like "Hello, nice to meet you," if someone had introduced you by name already.

3. They don't expect you to always wait until spoken to to speak. They do expect you to contribute to the conversation. This can be somewhat difficult because you will have to figure out what's a good point to break into the conversation.

4. They have a whole list of things which they deem inappropriate to talk about in various different concepts...not sure what it is. However, remember, NT's have their weird insecurities too. Many of them drink at parties because it helps them open up (I do not recommend this as it can lead to alcoholism and bad choices!). As far as I can gather, their conversations follow certain contextual patterns.

Example: You are meeting someone for the first time, you are more expected to talk about things which give you a topical definition of eachother rather than an indepth one. Information to be exchanged is usually concerning names, occupations, and so on. If you are meeting a new employee, you only need to know the pertinent things such as what that employee's job specifications are and their name. If you have met someone at a coffee shop who you are interested in, you might want to exchange names, you might ask if they frequent that location a lot or if they live or work around here. You might talk about the coffee.

In other words, they don't draw on random subjects. Their conversations usually fit the context of the environment and the level of relationship. It's only with those who you are very close to that you might bring up a random subject, like you noticed that the city installed new manhole covers.

Dress:

It's very important to them to blend in with everyone else, and still look good enough to stand out as looking good. Many of us are inhibited in this aspect by hypersensitivity to certain fabrics, but generally, any outfit that's on a mannequin is considered to look good enough to wear so you really don't have to figure out what to wear yourself.

If you really need to you can get an image consultant.

Mannerisms:

I think this is the most difficult for us to master. I've never done this, but you could try acting classes. Sometimes one can learn through mimicry, and indeed it's thought that many of those with AS/Autism have defective mirror neurons, neurons that fire and simulate within out brain the actions and emotions of others. So we missed some of the coding that allows others to emulate mannerisms and recognize non-verbal cues.

I hope this helps.

I have no ethical qualms with acting "normal" when I need to. Over the years I've gotten better at it, and if I really try I can pass for NT, though I can't do it forever. My max is usually a few hours, and then I just get so exhausted that I stop talking entirely and kind of shut down. Usually I don't need to try too hard for too long, so it's ok. The people I really need to fake around are people who I either don't know, or want to impress/give a good impression, so I'm rarely around said people for longer than maybe 3-4 hours at a time.

I've decided it's definitely worth it to try and learn to be normal. I've found that acting how I'd like to act seems to offend people, and not even if I'm doing anything offensive. If I act nervous and upset all the time people get upset with me for it. If I need to meet new people (say, a friend's parents) I've found it's way easier to just act normally and make a good first impression, so then whoever I'm meeting will be more at ease with me. The longer I've known someone the more I can open up and be myself, and by then they don't seem to mind as much because they've gotten more comfortable with me as well.

I'm not convinced ethics is an issue. I am fairly certain everyone acts constantly - nobody I have ever seen says all and only what passes through the mind without editing and regardless of Audience. And, in the world, the keynote is WHATEVER works, whether it be holding down a job or wrestling an alligator. There are of course things I will not do - but by going along with society tyou are cheating nobody. Maybe not even yourself.

The real question is, how well can you? People have really gvood instincts for recognizing who is like themn and who is a ringer.

lol 'normies'.

No ethical problems here...I fake it when I have to, not when I don't have to. It's a lot easier now that I work for myself...when your boss is weird it helps

Good luck!

~Kate

I don't fake being NT. If people don't like my stimming or trying to talk about information that I just read about then that's their own problem. I may have accidently picked up some social skills along the way but I don't pretend to be anyone but me. And if I want to be quiet I'll be quiet. It works for me.

I find it very exhausting as well, but I can do it. I had some help from a psych professor in college, who was actually my teacher, not my therapist, but he took some kind of interest in me for some reason (maybe because his son was a friend of mine or something...and was also a little odd). He taught me some things about how to "act more normal" that have been priceless, and this was well before AS was even well-described.



Learning to fake it has served me well. I am in my 40s and though I definitely wouldn't want to do it *all* the time, it gets me through the day sometimes. It has gotten me in trouble sometimes too, I won't lie, when ppl expect me to *be* normal and I'm not (can't do it 24/7) but I am finding out in all sorts of life lessons that those folks are mostly not worth it.

~Kate

I go out of my way sometimes to be mean and sarcastic to make people avoid me. Strange thing is sometimes I have made friends by doing this. I guess normal people like watching other people be made a fool of. When forced to shake people's hands I try to crush their hand so they never exrtend it to me again. I hate forced human contact like hand shakes, high fives, fist bumps, or hugs. I'd rather jump off a cliff than to touch a stranger. One my friends has double jointed hands that move differently than most people's hands I crushed his hand in a hand shake once and he pretended like I broke it. He said he was trying to break me of the habbit of crushing hands. He thought it would scare me but I laughed when he screamed. OOPs

As for acting like I was normal I did not figure this out until I was in my twenties. I figured how to do this by listening to others and watching their body language when they talked to other people. I use preprogrammed responses and hope for the best. I try not to giggle when people give me bad news. I giggle when I am nervous or scared. Its gotten me in some pretty good fights thank goodness I have a high threshold for pain and do not care about other people's suffering or pain.

This is a really interesting concept - I guess the idea is that it would be un-ethical for an NT to emulate an ASD person. So what about an ASD person emulating an NT? We do it because we are trying to fit in, so society will accept us. The same society that defines what is ethical. I guess it would have to be ethical if we need to emulate 'normal' or NT because that's what society wants. At least until society freely accepts ASD people and everything ASD related, then it wont be necessary?

I think it is up to you if you wish to attempt being NT. I don't know your age but you said you have been round the block....so hopefully are wise enough to protect yourself from damage. Why can`t you be honest and let the people at the centre know about the real you, they might have added support.

Following on from one of my job losses I trained in a completely different field and enjoyed my job really well until the mask slipped. Without appearing negative, I don`t work at all now as I am aware of my limitations in the wider workplace and am content at knowing that I can`t change the way I am.