The illegals getting in my country and the dispute about it

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What do you all think about the issue over the illegals getting into my country from Mexico and stealing all the jobs? I thought I would bring up this issue so that we all could dispute it. Do you think Bush is doing a good job about keeping the illegals out of my country? I think he's doing a really poor job of it. What I think is that there should be what Germany had a large prison wall going from one side to another. Having guards set up with the free will to shoot to kill if any illegals get over the border. What do you all think?

I think that sounds like a horrible idea. Why would we want to be like Germany? A wall would be an ugly eyesore and would be expensive. Why doesn't Bush just fix the economy instead so people won't have to worry about being unemployed all the time

Plus, they aren't stealing any of the jobs I would want anyway.

Well, what can be done to fix the immigration problem. The border is massive and the costs of keeping it guarded would be enormous. The president is not responsible for every detail of running this country, however, it can be said that Bush is for immigration and would seek to allow immigrants into the nation in a legal status as guest workers. Immigration has its positives and negatives, it increases business profits, it increases domestic output and it likely has a positive impact on prices, however it also lowers wages, it creates higher burdens on local governments for education and other public services, and I would not be surprised if it increased crime.

I really don't care too much on the issue. We are not going to find it easy to keep these people out so it becomes a choice between lowering our standards or spending millions and billions of dollars defending a giant wall.

One thing is that I doubt that illegals are stealing most of the good jobs anyway, they mainly get the crappy manual labor jobs that many people don't want to do anyway.

I always found it interesting how people talk about the 'illegals' in this country and how they spew hatred for those who are invading 'my' country. Exactly who are we referring too? And exactly how did this get to be 'your' country. The argument can be made that the only 'legals' in this country are Native Americans (I am not NA btw). Do they have the right to keep everyone else out? If they have the right, then they definitely do not have the power, so would it be those who are 'legal' in this country are those with power, not the right? When you think about it, if you're not Native American, then you might well be considered an 'illegal' in America.

We are all immigrants......

how does one 'steal' a job

People seeking freedom should get freedom, after all freedom is something that is sought for. Everyone in America was immigrant at one time.

Some people are just jealous of the competitive entrepreneurism of those that are alien to this country. Yet after some time, like always or the hope is, that everyone that comes here become a citizen as they desire and have the freedom to like others did.

Native Americans are not the legal ones because legality is a societal construct and Native Americans do not have much if any control over the US. The government of the US is respected as the legal authority for the region known as the US. Power decides everything anyway. The original poster did not address morality in this issue, he was addressing economics and societal issues, we could debate until the cows come home about morality simply because moral standards vary so much and have no solid basis that we can refer back to, economic and social issues to have a solid basis to talk about. Immigration may be something that we may currently support but it has a negative impact on the working class by reducing wages and because of that is something not liked by manual laborers and other jobs that compete for work with immigrants. One of the big reasons for the low wages in the industrial revolution was the constant influx of immigrants, if there were less immigrants the wages of the average workers would be higher and we would not have had such great problems. However, do not look at me as against immigration, it can also be argued that lower wages encourage the formation of capital and increase the competitiveness of industries, immigration encourages the growth of profits which of course are reinvested into the economy creating more growth, and immigration can allow for lower prices which help the average consumer.... but anyway.


The idea of immigrants stealing jobs is that they fill a slot that could be filled by a native worker. However, I don't think that the scarcity of jobs is really the biggest issue regarding immigration's affects on workers within a nation. As I said earlier immigrants drive down wages, this does not mean that costs of living go down with it thus making the workers in that market poorer than they would be without immigration. Whether or not there are long term benefits to compensate for this is another part of this issue.

I did some research on this awhile back. I found out that the reason we have such cheap fruit available year round is because farmers employ illegal immigrants to harvest it. I read the Amnesty reports about how the US government used the INS to raid the immigrant workers as a way to ensure they did not organize for higher wages. I think about that every time I buy cheap imported US fruit in our Canadian grocery stores, so much cheaper than our own Canadian fruit and veggies. Some of the stories about how those workers are treated in immigration centres was horrific. It is a kind of slavery.

Well, the thing is that these people come to this country willingly. It is not slavery because it was their choice. American law enforcement does not kill these people and eat them(at least I have never heard reports about that). These immigrants come here for a better life and for better wages and apparently they feel like they get both if they keep on coming back. Getting back to Mexico is probably as easy or easier than coming to America.

What is wrong with having people start there own gardens? Also why not pay more fro fruit and not allow standards of poor quality conditions and circumstances but opportunity to anyone seeking it?

There are issues where unfruitful actions are taken and more innovative solutions available. Perhaps with the new generations the government will become less a burden then it is presently of itself and those it serves.

Illogicalities are everywhere within it including non-efficiency, waste and less productivity at times with those employed in it. the military at one point was more self-sufficient then it is now, that's for certain.

The Canadian fruit in grocery stores is sooo expensive, only rich people can afford it. You are right though, it is possible to buy right from the Canadian farm. I am going to try doing that this summer. It is somewhat difficult to get out to the country without a car, but I will try.

Hey Tigerfire, It's not like Mexicans run into restaurants and stores and force people to hire them at gunpoint. They're not stealing jobs, they're getting jobs for less than minimum wage. That is, they're getting jobs because (A) they're willing to work for less and (B) they risked their lives to make a living here so you know they're not going to slack off. It's called competition and it's something you have to deal with in the workplace, Mexicans or no Mexicans. Don't blame immigrants, blame capitalism.

P.s.: Don't call them "illegals," it's vaguely dehumanizing and downright xenophobic.

Seriously. One day, on my way to my sh***y backward dairy queen job, an Illegal jumped out of the bushes, stole my uniform, all my indentification, and is currently working my shift. Then he came to my house and stole that, i'm homeless now, and so cold. So very cold.

http://jobs.ytmnd.com/

The immigrants increase competition and drive down wages, which is a part of capitalism, however, considering that these individuals are not legal participants in our economy complaining about their competition can be justified because they are not actually supposed to be here and they can have a negative affect on the OP's lifestyle(but not likely because I doubt he is a fruitpicker or anything like that). Calling them illegals is correct to some extent, they are here illegally, if they weren't here illegally then we wouldn't call them illegals. This is not really an issue of capitalism because regulations say that the immigrants should not be here, capitalism is not to be blamed, the legal structure is. If they were legal immigrants then capitalism could be blamed because they would be lawful participants in the economy with every right to have those jobs. The real question is whether we wish to loosen immigration laws and allow these people to be legal participants in the economy and remove their title as "illegals" or if we want to build a massive wall or do something else to keep them away.

Capitalism creates jobs, people then seek those jobs.

Why are people so jealous of success?

The only problem with capitalism likely is the bad apples. (laugh snort)

One of the problems with this issue is that all things being held equal from an economics perspective the inflow of immigrants creates lower wages. This can affect some people. Through allowing immigration some people lose in the short run, now it may be true that there is greater long term gain but to many the short run is what matters.