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Aeturnus
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27 Apr 2006, 4:46 am

I just read Temple Grandin's book "Thinking in Pictures" ... and, though, it is well written and informative, there is something about this woman that bothers me. Not to be disrespectful to her, knowing she is autistic and all, I still have to shed some light on this.

Temple Grandin knowingly has produced machines whose purpose is to slaughter cattle. She is a godsend to the cattle industry, which is completely morally bankrupt. She rants about how she cares about animals and all in her own book, but yet at one point questions how she can love animals and yet create machines to aid their slaughter.

She used the cattle with strong emphasis in her book, and prided on the fact that she had the knowledge to create such horrible devices for the meat industry. If she realized that she was creating cattle harm, why did she keep on doing these things? Is it that she didn't care? Or that she was just confused?

With the pictorial constructs Temple Grandin so possessed, why didn't she put her abilities to a use that could have truly helped out the world? She has the knowledge, but she decided to waste it on the whims of the cattle industry. Such knowledge could have been put to much better uses.

- Ray M -



danlo
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27 Apr 2006, 7:02 am

Who cares? Humane cattle slaughter is as good as any occupation. Get a life, mate.


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Tequila
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27 Apr 2006, 7:35 am

danlo wrote:
Who cares? Humane cattle slaughter is as good as any occupation. Get a life, mate.


Indeed. Far better for them to be killed as painlessly as possible rather than having their suffering dragged out.



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27 Apr 2006, 9:03 am

Read another of her books, Animals in Translation. It explains her views and the cattles views on human slaughter. It turns out what seems to be worse for the animal is not pain and suffering, but fear of pain and suffering. If you've ever been around livestock (horses, pigs, cattle), and seen one of those animals terrified, you'll see that being scared is worse than getting hurt. It's a business, and someone like her can make it better for the animals...and is doing it.



irishmic
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27 Apr 2006, 10:39 am

Here is another book "Beyond Beef"
At the current rate of beef consumption there is no way to kill cattle humanely for wholesale consumption.

The cattle industry contributes more then any other industry to greenhouse gases, destruction of wilderness areas, endangerment of primary consumers in the environment, and many other ills.

Neither humanitys digestive system, nor dental structure is conducive to daily meat intake.

As to who cares, there are and have been quite a few vegetarians on this site, who chose a vegetarian lifestyle out of ethical concerns.



Yonae
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27 Apr 2006, 11:37 am

Aeturnus wrote:
I just read Temple Grandin's book "Thinking in Pictures" ... and, though, it is well written and informative, there is something about this woman that bothers me. Not to be disrespectful to her, knowing she is autistic and all, I still have to shed some light on this.

Temple Grandin knowingly has produced machines whose purpose is to slaughter cattle. She is a godsend to the cattle industry, which is completely morally bankrupt. She rants about how she cares about animals and all in her own book, but yet at one point questions how she can love animals and yet create machines to aid their slaughter.

She used the cattle with strong emphasis in her book, and prided on the fact that she had the knowledge to create such horrible devices for the meat industry. If she realized that she was creating cattle harm, why did she keep on doing these things? Is it that she didn't care? Or that she was just confused?

With the pictorial constructs Temple Grandin so possessed, why didn't she put her abilities to a use that could have truly helped out the world? She has the knowledge, but she decided to waste it on the whims of the cattle industry. Such knowledge could have been put to much better uses.

- Ray M -


She can't care for animals when she uses her mind for that kind of end. Perhaps it was the potential of her pocket that weighted the decision, but now the weight must lie on her conscience.


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Awesomelyglorious
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27 Apr 2006, 10:57 pm

Well, Temple Grandin can help the slaughter industry and get to work with animals or she can decide not to. Both way animals die, one way they die more humanely and she gets benefit and the other way they die less humanely and she does not get to work with them. No matter what the animals die. The only question remains is whether or not she wants to help the animals or let them suffer.



NeantHumain
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28 Apr 2006, 12:47 am

Yonae wrote:
She can't care for animals when she uses her mind for that kind of end. Perhaps it was the potential of her pocket that weighted the decision, but now the weight must lie on her conscience.

I'm guessing you're a vegetarian. Truthfully, the consumption of animal products does not bother me, and I dount her role in it all bothers her either.



Aeturnus
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28 Apr 2006, 1:56 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Well, Temple Grandin can help the slaughter industry and get to work with animals or she can decide not to. Both way animals die, one way they die more humanely and she gets benefit and the other way they die less humanely and she does not get to work with them. No matter what the animals die. The only question remains is whether or not she wants to help the animals or let them suffer.


Well, I can live with this idea. I never thought about it that way, but you can also do something humane even if you're trying to sustain a living.

You can be Chumbawumba -- Just sell your rights regarding the cattle machines to the cattle industry, and then use the proceeds to support organic farming, fair trade practices and environmental justice. You do it just like Chumbawumba sold their rights to one of their songs for an auto commercial, I believe it was a commercial, and then used the proceeds to support environmental justice.

- Ray M -



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28 Apr 2006, 3:53 pm

a side note:

A song is intellectual property(copyright, while fencing or corral design would be a patent. Its fairly easy to copyright a song(automatic) and not so easy to patent a physical object.

A patent is applied to a specific design or pattern. Every cattle pen is going to be somewhat unique, and not worth the time/money to patent. I suspect what she specializes in is holistic modification to existing structures. Much like ergonomics is applied to a chair. She improves the cattle flow, the sight lines, comfort levels.


At one time, human surgery was painful and primative, until the medical science of anesthesia was born. UP until then, little regard was shown for the patients state of mind or pain levels. Undoubtably, lots of doctors wondered why they thought it was a waste of time, but it wasnt, was it?

Temple Grandin is like that. She wants to ease the suffering of animals that must suffer regardlessly; her own personal feelings will not change things, so she uses her 'powers' in a way that will have a positive effect.



Aeturnus
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29 Apr 2006, 12:33 am

Fuzzy wrote:
a side note:

A song is intellectual property(copyright, while fencing or corral design would be a patent. Its fairly easy to copyright a song(automatic) and not so easy to patent a physical object.

A patent is applied to a specific design or pattern. Every cattle pen is going to be somewhat unique, and not worth the time/money to patent. I suspect what she specializes in is holistic modification to existing structures. Much like ergonomics is applied to a chair. She improves the cattle flow, the sight lines, comfort levels.


At one time, human surgery was painful and primative, until the medical science of anesthesia was born. UP until then, little regard was shown for the patients state of mind or pain levels. Undoubtably, lots of doctors wondered why they thought it was a waste of time, but it wasnt, was it?

Temple Grandin is like that. She wants to ease the suffering of animals that must suffer regardlessly; her own personal feelings will not change things, so she uses her 'powers' in a way that will have a positive effect.


About copyrights, I am not that knowledgeable in copyright laws, and probably should be more aware, so I wasn't sure about the patent / copyright difference. Like, I know the band Negativland, and have read their own unique essays ... and they've completely rebelled against all copyright laws, but I think some of their stuff is more or less greatly exaggerated. That's like the extent of my copyright knowledge, other than some factors of copyright laws regarding computer software.

I'm not like against Temple Grandin, and her views of thinking from an animals' perspective is very interesting, to say the least. It's just that I don't think the cattle industry cares about her views towards animals, therefore maybe I should be focusing my discontent towards the cattle industry, and not so much Temple Grandin.

- Ray M -



Fuzzy
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29 Apr 2006, 11:14 am

Aeturnus, You are a thoughtful person. I admire that.

You are right; neither the slaughter industry nor the retailers have much concern for the comfort of the animals, but their bottom line is improved by gentle(as possible), handling.

Bruising or cuts/punctures to the animal creates scar tissue, or in the case of injury right before slaughter, tissue that is unmarketable due to blood/clotting. Likewise, stress hormones tend to do bad things to meat, reducing the retail value.

From that point of view, its in the best interests of the beef industry to treat the animals as gently as possible, and they know it. Temple Grandin is hired by the retailers to make sure the processing plants comply.

If you read "animals in translation" by Ms Grandin, she explains a lot better than I. The book is about far more than that, and I enjoyed it greatly. I hope to get a clpy of her other books now.

Thanks for the intelligent, rational debate!



KingdomOfRats
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29 Apr 2006, 12:01 pm

If Temple had chose not to make the machine,cattle would still be killed,it is accepted that will happen,
if people like Temple can make things to help animals before going through slaughter it can only be a good thing.


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Bland
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29 Apr 2006, 10:54 pm

Stop making excuses for her! It is obvious that Temple Grandin is an evil genius!! :twisted:


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Rhisiart_Steffan
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30 Apr 2006, 9:05 am

well if she is she is or maybe she is the puppet of the beef industry.


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30 Apr 2006, 11:20 am

Bland wrote:
Stop making excuses for her! It is obvious that Temple Grandin is an evil genius!! :twisted:

yah now pass the beef ribs :D


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