Lack of sleep is making me go mad.

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Ok I posted about this a couple of days ago in another forum, but it's got to the point where it's probably more suited to this forum now sadly

I've been having a VERY bad patch of not being able to sleep. Every so often, perhaps about once or twice in 2 months or so I get hit by a 'no sleep no matter what' spell. During this time, I sometimes don't get more than 2 hours sleep over 2 days, or sometimes no sleep for up to a week at a time, not even a nap. After the 5th day, I start thinking I'm going mad, I start seeing orbs & shadows in the corners of my eyes and I lose my temper over the smallest of things. I also do stupid stuff like make myself a drink and pour it straight down the sink, I almost put rat food in the rabbit's dish, which could have made him really sick as rat food contains meat products, but luckily my husband saw and stopped me, and I tried to put dishes in the laundry machine on day 4 of no sleep once! These are things I would NEVER do, even in my worst states, when this happens it's like a part of my brain is asleep, but I can still do stuff.

I've done EVERYTHING to try and reduce this problem, from stopping drinking alcohol (and removed the whiskey bottle from my bedside that I used to swig when I couldn't sleep) to cutting right back on my caffine intake & getting more excersise, but none of it has worked. Pretty much everything anyone can suggest, I've tried it. I've tried the herbal and over the counter 'sleep aids' but they have a weird effect on me, the antihistamine ones give me terrible headaches, make me feel sick, even have a stimulant effect on me sometimes, which when you've been awake 5 nights is HORRIBLE. The herbal ones also make me feel sick, give me heartburn and headaches etc.

Now, I went to a doctor a few months ago, when I was having very bad insomnia symptoms, and he suggested anti depressants, which I do not want to take. I have had a very bad reaction in the past, and it's my body, I do not want to be on meds for a long term, to fix a short term problem. I am not depressed, my life is great right now. Sadly my grandma passed away last year, and she left me and my sister a large sum of cash, enough for us to clear the mortgage on our house and get married. As sad as it was, this has enabled us to become much better off, my husband has the satisfaction of going to work now and actualy having his wages at the end of the month and not giving it all to the bank. The atmosphere in our house is calm, we don't argue, we don't fight, there's nothing, and I mean nothing for me to be anxious or depressed about anymore.

I'm even thinking going back into education and working my way up to a degree in ICT, starting to learn music properly and other exciting stuff. Feeling depressed just isn't on the menu right now. However not sleeping for a week makes it very hard for me to do anything, as I can't concentrate, or plan anything etc. It's effecting my life WORSE than anything else has, even my worst anxiety spells have nothing on this.

I really don't know how to talk to a doctor about the insomnia without getting told 'SSRI meds will be of great help', these things are more addictive than anything else, and you have to take them for weeks to notice any positive effects. I have a phobia of being or feeling sick, and that is one of their more 'common' side effects, so I wouldn't take them, end of.

GP's in the UK dish out antidepressants for pretty much everything, from depression (which I think they can help when they are used in the right context, by the right doctors), to pain from a bad back! I do not want to take these drugs, it's my body, my mind, and I do not need antidepressants. I would however consider taking a very short, small dose of a sleeping pill, to try and break the cycle of this 'stay awake for a week' thing I'm going through right now.

I understand these meds can be addictive if you use them for too long, but lots of people do benefit from using them for very short periods and they don't have the same list of side effects antidepressants have. I just don't know how to ask a doctor to give me some without sounding like a drug seeking junkie. I do not want to get high, or use them recreationaly, I want to sleep, at night! I don't want to come over to my doctor as seeking this sort of irresponsable thing, but a lot of doctors suspect people who ask for sleeping medication to be those who abuse it, give it away, sell it or overdose on it.

Sorry for going on, this is my 5th night of no sleep, I'm sorry.

This happens to me. There are times when I get bouts of no sleep, I think that I just ended one of this bouts. I simply can't sleep, and sometimes I slept from around 1 a-m. to 3 or 4 a.m. and from then on, just not being able to sleep, By the time this weekend came, I felt really tired, but couldn't sleep until yesterday night.

miserylovescompany, you mentioned that you have tried "the herbal and over the counter 'sleep aids' ". Does this include melatonin < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin > ? If not, try it. If melatonin does not work, then you will have to ask your GP for some prescription medication. When you speak to your GP, emphasise that you are neither depressed nor anxious, and that these bouts of insomnia usually only last about one week so you only want enough sleeping medication for seven days (at least at first). All sleeping medications have side-effects (including tolerance and "rebound insomnia"), which should not be underestimated, but I understand your desperation.

Anyway, here is some additional information, although it sounds like you are already familiar with it:
"BBC: Science & Nature - How to sleep better"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/sleep/
"To Sleep: Perchance To Take Lots of Pills. Testing over-the-counter sleep aids, herbal and non."
http://www.slate.com/id/2062791/

Sweet dreams.

You can't get melatonin over the counter in the UK and doctors only prescribe it to over 55s.

I went through that, for an entire month last fall, last year. It lasted from Mid September until Mid October. My doctor put me on trazodone for a month. That seemed to help. I'm taking melatonin, now.

Re sleeping pills - I adore Ambien. Great stuff, works like a charm, I feel rested the next day. I try not to use it more than once or twice a week because I habituate to it. Unless something else is going on - caffiene, have to get up early, unusual stress -- a calcium and magnesium supplement before bed usually takes care of my chronic insomnia.

I'm afraid I don't know how to convince your doctors to let you try it. The doctors in the US seem very mellow about sleeping pills. I've had an ambien prescription for years. If you don't have a history of drug-seeking, I don't see why they would assume you are. But I don't know anything about the doctor culture there.

Re your other stuff (which is not intended to convince you to take SSRIs, btw. I do understand how you feel because I was very irked when everyone wanted to prescribe them for me, at a time when I felt like my life was going fabulously, except that I was so damn tired.)

I don't think it's true that SSRIs are more addictive than anything else. Especially not more addictive than sleeping pills. The ones with a very short half life, like Paxil, tend to be the hardest to get off of. Prozac lasts longer and is not that difficult. (Have used it 3 times.)

It's also not necessarily true that they take a long time to help. They tell you that, but IME, SSRIs start working for me very quickly, like within 2-3 days.

I do find it odd that they want to prescribe SSRIs for insomnia, because all my doctors kept wanting me to take them for being too tired. I guess either can be a sign of depression. But I recently tried Prozac again and though it helped my anxiety a fair bit, it only made the exhaustion worse because I'd wake up early and couldn't fall back to sleep. I've been off it for 3 days now without much difficulty.

They'd want to give me SSRI's if I had a bad back, a sore throat, a cold, a broken leg or a brain tumor..

I take the same medicine. Here it is called Stillnox. Ambien is another trade name for Zolpidem. It is also written Zolpidem in my box of Stillnox. It also works fine for me. I sleep soon that I lay in the bed (1 or two minutes after I lay in the bed). Sometimes it takes longer to sleep if I had a meltdown related to some sensory thing (sound) but that is rare now.

Last edited by Wedge on 31 Aug 2010, 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Back in the 40's when my Dad could not sleep he received advice from and old time doctor. He said even if you can not sleep, lay in bed and if the mind does not sleep, listen to soft music, because the body still needs rest.
He did this most of his life when he could not sleep.
I sometimes used head phones and quiet music or ambient music, but more recently if I can not sleep I lay in bed and listen to an audio book with the little ear phones. Like being read too. Usually I end up falling asleep but if I don't my body is rested and my mind is too because it is not running at top speed with worry.

I'll add another vote for Ambien (zolpidem), it works quickly, you're not drowsy the next day, and it's real cheap. I've had a scrip for it the last 4 years or so, it works quite well for persistent or occasional insomnia.

I live in the UK and I have purchased melatonin many times without a prescription. Initially I bought it from overseas sellers on ebay.co.uk, but later I found http://www.biovea.net/ .

I hate interacting with the local quacks (GPs). Thankfully, there is the world wide web.

You can also order here - I think it's cheaper.

To the OP - I buy the 10mg one - it's really worth trying. I wish you well.

I'm an ex nurse, and my mom died a few months ago, and also I was assaulted, so my sleep pattern has been crazy.... I just couldnt close my eyes, despite desperate tiredness.

Most of the standard SSRIs the doc want to palm off on you cause insomnia anyway, so they aint a great help. Trazadone is an anti depressant, yes, but is used for insomnia, and its not as difficult to get used to, or come off, (i found) as some of the others, such as Effexor.

Zopiclone (immovane) is a pure sleeping tablet for short term insomnia given out on prescription in the UK. Its very similar to Ambien (Zolpidem). It'll give you a good night sleep and get you back into a routine, for 2-4 weeks, then stop taking it....

I've tried all of the herbal remedies and over the counter stuff. the only thing that came close was taking a nightly antihistamine, some doctors will prescribe these for you rather than the sleeping pills.

If you are following a good routine re sleep hygiene ie getting up at the same time, sleeping in a quiet room, not watching tv in bed, not drinking caffeine after 6pm etc etc.... and are still having trouble sleeping, then you may need to bite the bullet and take something just in the short term, especially if its affecting your vision and your ability to think straight. I thought about this long and hard myself before taking anything, I promise... Im epileptic and had two massive seizures before I gave in to the sleeping pills. :/

Sorry to hear that, Epilepsy is not nice the school I went to almost half were people with Autism and comorbid Epilepsy.

I've been thinking on this, and I've finally found the root cause, well of this latest bout anyway!. On August the 13th we got married, it all went very well and stress free, I didn't lost any sleep over it, not even the night before. After all, if you love someone as much as I love him, then there's nothing to get worked up about anyway, we'd been together for 5 years prior anyway! Good going methinks!

Anyway, the day after we got married, we went on holiday, not too far away, but this is it. I never sleep in strange beds, and I took my laptop with me and had wireless internet, a recipe for no sleep! I also drank alcohol over the course of all the festivities, which I have to be careful with as it messes with my sleep BIG TIME, but hey, gotta let ones hair down from time to time, specialy on the most important day of anyone's life!!. This crappy lot, booze, strange bed, computer and all the odd stuff that goes with being away from my house, of course I didn't sleep a wink for the 5 days we were away, I came back royally f**ked. I stayed up every night researching Kurt Cobain's 'murder', listening to some damn good tunes and sipping fine wines & ciders, sleep ran away from me in fright! My husband on the other hand can sleep on a horse if he had to, so he never sees my nightly distress. I feel like getting obliterated on alcohol right now, but I'm holding off, I know it might help me for one night, but it's going to make it all worse tomorrow.

This little holiday was so much fun, I have so many great memories, but I have brought back an unwanted souvenir, some kickass insomnia. I'm usualy good at working things like this out, but I'm so exhausted my logic failed me.

I suppose I'm suffering something simlar to jet lag, where one's circadian rythem is whacked out by the changes in time zone and daylight. I went to school with a guy who had pretty servere Autism, and he was on a totaly different time zone to everyone else, he would litteraly fall asleep standing up in the day, and be awake all night. I could sleep fine before we went away, so this HAS to be the reason for my current problems.

Everything's making me jump at the moment, from cars driving by to my rats scuttling around their cage, I feel like I'm on the edge of going completly loopy loo. I thought I saw a ghost this afternoon which turned out to be the outside bin, my OCD is creeping back through the cracks in my sleep deprived psyche, it's horrible, it's taking me all my strength not to break down and cry. I'm so happy, I've got everything, a husband, our OWN house, we don't owe anyone ANY money anymore, we're happy.

I am going to try and get in at the doctors tomorrow and I will tell them what's happened and see if they 'get it'. I imagine they deal with people who've come back from abroad and suffering insomnia after the time zone shifts. I know going 60 miles or so isn't exactly crossing the dateline, but my poor sleep hygene while we were away has lead to this still.

I would accept a sleeping med for a VERY short time to try and re adjust me sleeping patterns, so I'll see what they say. If they offer me SSRIs for this, then they're....lets not go there.

Thanks for the replies anyway

Just got back from seeing a totaly useless 'Doctor' who looked down his nose at me and pretty much branded me a drug seeker before I'd even finished speaking. He was the supposed 'partner' of the friggen practice, supposedly the best one there! No really, now I understand why so many people buy dodgy prescription meds online. I'm giving this some serious consideration myself, I've been down the correct channels, they've just brushed me aside like a peice of scum. I also mentioned a minor skin issue on my feet, which I guess backed up his idea that I was probably sleeping rough in a dumpster & shooting up needles every hour. I bet the whole age thing is because there is some stuck up statistic that says youngsters will sell the meds or abuse them, you know, like all young people abuse drugs now don't they. I certainly don't feel 24 right now, I feel more like 94.

He said 'we're not giving you any sleeping pills' before I had even half finished explaining my problem, nevermind actualy asking, outright for drugs, which I wouldn't do anyway. Apparantly, at 24, I am too young for any help and he told me to 'drink warm milk', dispite the fact my records should say I have to be very careful with diary because it can aggravate me exzema.

I don't get it, they make medications to help people who cannot sleep, then when someone cannot sleep, they can't get the meds. I honestly don't know how long I can go with the problem, today I am extremely upset, which probably made this stuck up doctor think I was withdrawing from drugs or whatever.

I suppose this is what you get for being a 'decent' person, for not breaking the law, for not hurting others, this is the kind of treatment you can expect back from people in return.

It's one of those impossible situations, I have no way to prove to the stuck up world of British doctors that I am not an addict or a drug dealer. It's pretty much guilty until proven guilty over here. I shouldn't expect any different, they leave pain patients writhing in agony because they refuse to prescribe pain meds too, but you even mention that the pain is making you feel 'depressed' and bang, out comes the prescription pad and you're off home with an SSRI, and as you probably know SSRI MEDS ARE AWFUL TO STOP USING, and have to be stopped very gradualy.


Thing is, if I was a dumpster diving druggie, I would be entitled to lots of 'help'.

I find communicating with other people to be difficult in general, and communicating with medical personnel to be extremely difficult. As a consequence of this, on the rare occasions when I do have to visit my local quacks, I try to keep my communication short and to the point, if only so that I can get out of there faster.

I have purchased non-prescription medicines (e.g. melatonin) via the web for many years, without any problems. For prescription items, you will likely have to provide some additional information (via an on-line form/ questionnaire) and/ or a prescription. (Exactly what sort of information depends on the website.) Whatever information you provide, keep it brief and to the point. You may want to first look up your problem/ illness on a medical website or http://en.wikipedia.org/ , and plagiarise a couple of lines describing the symptoms.