Page 1 of 2 [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Pook
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 412

16 Sep 2010, 4:07 pm

Our daughter is in kindegarten this year and twice in four weeks we've had two notes about her hitting another classmate which worries me. I don't want her seen as a bullie, but I don't know how to handle it. I havn't got the full story on today's episode.

The teacher's note stated she was more conerned about the lying then about the hitting. We''ve been impressed with her so I know she is handling the situation. Dd usually tells the truth which suprised me.

She's tantruming now and saying things she doesn't mean which I'm sure is a result of today's dissappointments. I feel so for her and other children with impulse control issues. I can have miserable Panic Attacks and many adults do not understand that or the fact I have terrible eye contact along with other anxiety symptoms.

Advice appreciated.



Last edited by Pook on 16 Sep 2010, 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

momsparky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,831

16 Sep 2010, 6:08 pm

I've found a lot of useful information on this thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postx133594-15-0.html

My son has been striking out since he was about 3, so I understand completely what you're going through; it's particularly difficult when it happens at school and you didn't see it, and don't know what caused it to happen. Fortunately, though, this is one of the things that social workers at school keep an eye out for, bringing the social worker into the conversation has helped our son a lot.

Good luck!



angelbear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,219

16 Sep 2010, 7:04 pm

I have posted this same thread before, and am always looking for advice on this one. My son is 5 and is in special needs kindergarten. So far, we have never gotten a report of him hitting other kids. I am the one that he takes his aggression out on. He is normally a very sweet and loving boy, but this aggression has been going on for about 4 months now. It actually started at the beginning of the summer when he was out of school, so I just don't understand what causes it. He is an only child, and I am a stay at home mom. Our household is very calm, so I have no idea what could be causing him stress. Unfortunately, when he hits me across the face, I react by yelling at him. I try to control it, (I don't hit him) But it is very disturbing to me that he thinks it is ok to just wack me across the face. I can usually tell when he is starting to get upset, and I wouldn't call it a full blown tantrum, it is just when he gets upset, he just can't seem to control it. I try to tell him that he needs to get himself calmed down, and I try to get away from him. Lately, he just follows me around trying to hit me. I try to get into another room so that he can't do it, and he will follow me to try and do it.

It doesn't happen everyday, maybe about every 2 or 3 weeks, but it is enough that I am very concerned about it. We have tried talking to him about it, sending him in his room, taking things away, nothing has worked so far. We are thinking of seeking outside help soon if this does not clear up. I really wish I could help, but I am in the same boat!
I guess at least my son is hitting me instead of it being a problem at school!



Pook
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 412

16 Sep 2010, 8:57 pm

I hear you as she does lightly slap me, says she will hit me and has pushed me. She doesn't do this to her father and so far I've been the only one she takes her frustrations out on which is very puzzling. I don't think her dad realises how awful this makes a stay at home mom feel.

Dd feels terrible and will appologize once she is calm, but her impulse control is not congruent with her academic abilities. I really think she doesn't want to be physical, but she is unable to stop herself from being physical and sometimes responding verbally. I posted on another thread my concerns she was not ready for a full day of school, but we can't afford private as of yet.

I figure if this continues we will get a call from the guidance councilor or school anyway. Dh doesn't want to admit she has a behavior problem and has told me I don't handle it correctly or this wouldn't be so common a problem *her verbal responses do remind me of dh as he has difficulty filtering what he says when angry* He is dx'd with ADD and takes ritalin which has helped some.



angelbear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,219

16 Sep 2010, 9:18 pm

My son has not been diagnosed with ADHD by a doctor, but the school did their own evaluation last year in pre-k, and said he fit the profile for ADHD. He has trouble focusing on his work at school, and will clap,sing, and make noises in class at inappropriate times. So, I was looking up ADHD symptoms on line, and lack of impulse control is a symptom. My son's main diagnosis is PDD-NOS/possible Asperger's. He is definitely on the spectrum, but lately it seems as though the ADHD is giving us the most problems.

Does your daughter have an IEP in place?



Pook
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 412

19 Sep 2010, 10:01 pm

No. I did not notify the school as I wanted the teacher to evaluate the situation without any preconceived ideas. I talked to a Physician's assistant yesterday and she did say that 5 yearolds are not very good at impulse control. Dd seems to behave better around others overall at this point then at home which I understand is common.

At a birthday party we saw one of the boys she hit and it seems he is a bit obnoxious himself so that may be a tit for tat incident that we got a note about from the teacher. She has had 2 warning cards out of the few weeks they've been in school so I am hoping for this week to be a good one.

It is sooo difficult to discipline when I see she is truely upset and sorry for her impulsive behavior. Now when she is stubborn and "lippy" that is another story in our house :roll: :wink:



OddFiction
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Aug 2010
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,090
Location: Ontario, Canada

23 Sep 2010, 9:28 am

angelbear wrote:
I guess at least my son is hitting me instead of it being a problem at school!


Just my two cents.
If your son is FOLLOWING you in order to hit you, it hasn't got its roots in ASD and isn't something you should be casual about or worry about attacking head on. Bad behaviour that isn't dealt with early can lead to bad behaviour as adult. If taking things away, and sending him to his room (a room is often not a punishment) is not working, then start outlining new punishments:

Denial of treats / deserts / favourite snacks / favourite lunches.
Consider spanking. I don't usually approve of spanking, but... eye for an eye....

__
I wonder if they make restraints in child sizes?


_________________
By simply doing what they are designed to do something large and magnificient happens. In this sense they show us how to live; The only barometer you have is your heart. When you spot your flower, you can't let anything get in your way. - John Laroche


Erisad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jul 2010
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,062
Location: United States

23 Sep 2010, 9:53 am

I used to hit classmates when I was younger too. For me, I did it because they were bullying my friends in the special education class and I saw it as defending my friends. The last time I got in trouble for hitting someone was in 7th grade. I hit the right kid and all the other bullies left me alone and I haven't resorted to violence since. Also, I was on ritalin which has a nasty side affect of increasing one's testosterone (even if you're a girl) so you have more pent-up aggression. If your child is on ritalin, get them off of it as soon as possible.

Point being, ask your child why they hit their classmates. Chances are they could be provoking her and the teacher isn't catching them. My special ed teacher set up a system for me: if I went a week without hitting anyone, I would be allowed to play Math Blaster on Friday during recess/free time. Talk to your child's teacher/counselors, they could figure something out for you.



momsparky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,831

23 Sep 2010, 10:42 am

OddFiction wrote:
angelbear wrote:
I guess at least my son is hitting me instead of it being a problem at school!


Just my two cents.
If your son is FOLLOWING you in order to hit you, it hasn't got its roots in ASD and isn't something you should be casual about or worry about attacking head on. Bad behaviour that isn't dealt with early can lead to bad behaviour as adult. If taking things away, and sending him to his room (a room is often not a punishment) is not working, then start outlining new punishments:

Denial of treats / deserts / favourite snacks / favourite lunches.
Consider spanking. I don't usually approve of spanking, but... eye for an eye....

__
I wonder if they make restraints in child sizes?


I have to emphatically disagree with this one. When he's in the middle of a meltdown, my son is capable of doing a number of things that seem like he's in control of himself when he is not, including following the person to hit them, retrieving and threatening to use a weaopn, answering back when spoken to, finding specific-to-the-person-and-situation hurtful things to say, etc. Despite what these things may imply, he was still NOT in control of himself. One way we know this is that he is ONLY NOW beginning to be able to control these urges and get himself to his room to calm down; the effort this takes him illustrates how wildly out of control he was when he was younger, and that it wasn't simple misbehavior.

However, I do think that some negative consequences help, not to address the behavior he can't control, but the time BEFORE he melts down where he can take some responsibility to get himself somewhere safe to calm down. While we have a number of different consequences in place, one universal rule in our house is no angry or punitive touching and it applies to parents, too (so, not only no spanking, but no hand grabbing, dragging/carrying to his room, etc. - if we can't get him to go to his room, we go to ours and close the door.) Regardless of where you stand on corporal punishment, a rules-bound child (at least our rules-bound child) has difficulty understanding that some rules are different for adults than for children - and this is an issue where you want the rules to be crystal clear.

When hitting me reached a critical point, (we were discussing calling 911 and doing an involuntary committal after he came at me with scissors once - fortunately he only threatened me) our therapist suggested that one consequence to try was no touch from Mom for 24 hours - no hugs, no cuddle at bedtime, though I was allowed to be with him and talk to him. The therapist's feeling, and I think he was right, was that DS needed to be really clear on the difference between positive and negative touch - that Mom is there for helpful and soothing touch, but not to take out your frustration on as a punching bag. It helped. DS was about eight when we started this system, I don't know that it would have worked with him when he was younger.

In addition, my son has had to use his own money to pay for two new dining room chairs to replace the ones he's destroyed. He's lost a number of toys to charity for making them into projectiles. He loses privileges for a full 24 hours (candy, TV) after any kind of angry touching, even if it's a "little bit." After he's calmed down, we remind him of those consequences and of his responsibility to do something before he gets to that state (and then we discuss strategies e.g. going to his room.)

On our side, we're still learning that calming down time in his room is inviolate: our job as parents is to encourage him to use the strategy that works, even if it's difficult to let him have the last word (especially when the last word is incredibly personal and hurtful.)



MotherKnowsBest
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,196

23 Sep 2010, 11:04 am

I get really frustrated with this kind of thing. What does the teacher expect you to do? She was the one who was there. She was the one in charge at the time. Grrrrrrrr! :wall:



angelbear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,219

23 Sep 2010, 3:14 pm

Trust me, we are not taking it lightly. He is definitely denied things or put in his room. I don't really think he is in a meltdown when he hits me. From the descriptions I have read here of meltdowns, I am not sure that my son has really ever had a full blown one. I have noticed that he tends to hit at me when he is very tired. And the more our voices get elevated, and the more emotion we show, then it seems to make it worse.

I am treating it more as a behavior problem rather than as related to his ASD. I feel like spanking or hitting back will just escalate it. I try to just grab his arms and hold them very firmly and speak very firmly telling him he will NOT hit me. So far we have not had any hitting incidents in over a week.

I definitely want to break this while he is young so that we are not dealing with this as he gets older.



bigjessi
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 30

30 Sep 2010, 5:21 am

Since hitting at school hasn't been an issue for my daughter, I can't really advise on that. We did have problems when she was young though with hitting me and verbal abuse.

What worked for me- If she became violent, with her hands, feet, or words, she was not permitted to be near me. I explained to her that hitting/yelling mean things is abusive and won't be tolerated. As soon as the behavior started, she was sent to her room. If she didn't go voluntarily, I put her there. I stayed calm, didn't yell, didn't lecture. I told her that when she was calm, she could come out. I also explained exactly what calm meant. "When you are calm, you will be using a quiet voice, not say mean things, and your hands and feet will be still.". I said this quietly as I put her in her room and closed the door. I then ignored any yelling, screaming, wall banging that I heard from her room. Eventually she would calm down and come out. I'd simply ask "Are you done?". When she said yes, we'd go on with our day.

During calm times, we talked about how to let anger out in an appropriate manner. For example, it was okay for her to say "I'm mad at you" or "I don't like you" or "You're mean"- as long as it wasn't shouted. I taught her to hit pillows, throw soft stuffed animal toys or pillows in her room. Drawing angry pictures and later writing all her angry thoughts in a journal helped.

This method has worked well with every child I've worked with. Something I want to point out is that it isn't punishment. Putting the child in his room is a removal for a specific reason, and when the reason no longer exists he may come out of his room.



angelbear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,219

30 Sep 2010, 5:52 pm

Thanks Bigjess-

It seems we go for a week or two without any incidents and then it will happen. I have noticed a pattern of it happening when he is tired in the evenings. Also, it is true that if I scream at him (usually my first reaction if he is hitting or kicking me), it makes it worse. I like your method. I have been trying to do this, problem is he is getting too big for me to carry up the stairs! LOL! What I have tried is going up the stairs myself just to get out of his vicinity so that he can't do it. So far, he hasn't started with the verbal abuse!



Pook
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 412

30 Sep 2010, 9:02 pm

How do you deal with sending them to their room when the child won't stay in there as she is told to do? Do you block the door or put a hook so that she can see passed the door?

We have walked away and gone into our bedroom, but maybe she is too young to try the mommy cannot be touched for x amount of hours as punishment.



bigjessi
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 30

01 Oct 2010, 3:21 am

If the child refuses to stay in the room, you will have to lock it. A simple hook is good, but high enough that other children cannot use it to lock each other (or you!) in the room.

Its a bit different when you have to use a lock. Since safety and security are so important, this is how I do it when I have to use a lock:

While placing the child in the room I tell her the she can come out when she is calm, and explain what calm means. After placing the child in the room, I wait quietly outside the door. If she attempts to leave the room while still tantruming, I place her back in and lock the door. Then I sit in front of the door and about every 30 sec. to minute I again state "When you are calm, you can come out. When you are calm, you will be sitting quietly." As soon as the child is quiet, unlock the door. Open the door, and tell her she is welcome to come out when she is ready- then go on with your day.

This method should not be used if a child has a phobia about being locked in a room, or other such fear. The point is not to punish or create fear, but allow the child to calm down without allowing the child to be abusive to the parent or other family member.